What is sufficient hardboot's forward leaning range?

[ivo]

Hi Patrice, Jacques, Nils and all lucky Northwave boots users.

I have only one question which could be usefull for everybody who want to buy a new hardboots or modify the old one either with original modification kit or by "homemade" spring system.

I tried to modify my BLAX INGEMAR boots by myself (very easy and cheap, maybe I can than send some pictures ). I was satisfied with the result . The boot without liner was flexing exactly in the same range like we can see in this short video about Northwave spring system , somewhere in this forum. But immediatelly after I put my very hard custom foamed liners to the boots and close all bucklets, the forward leaning was much more less. Maybe it would be possible to modify somehow also liners but:

The question: could you please somehow explain to all of us ( maybe some similar short video, or some measurement of forward leaning or some angles ) what is sufficient forward leaning range for extremecarving ( or just leaning of your Northwave boots ) if you have boot wear on your foot and closed all bucklets like in real conditions?
Let everybody can easy try it and say, that his old or the new boot is perfect for this purpose?

Thanks
Ivo

[Dave]

Hey ivo

I have Raichle hardboots and did some modifications myself to improve the angle.

If you want, I can give you some pics, but it's raichle, so I don't know if they will help you?

Greetings, Dave

[Frankie]

Dave
I would be inerested in your mod to your raichle.
I 'm modifing some raichle boots for ec.I'm going to put the new rab that bomber will hopefully be selling soon and maybe some grinding on to allow more forward lean. Any other ideas would help.
Frankie

[mrtko]

Fanky,

i´m also waiting on this announced RAB from Bomber.
Could you pleae place a post in here once you are able to order this via bomber.

I read that it should be available within November.
Do you have any details (pics e.g.)

[Hans]

Fanky,

i´m also waiting on this announced RAB from Bomber.
Could you pleae place a post in here once you are able to order this via bomber.

I read that it should be available within November.
Do you have any details (pics e.g.)

http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/s ... hlight=rab
Greets, Hans

[rilliet]

The question: could you please somehow explain to all of us ( maybe some similar short video, or some measurement of forward leaning or some angles ) what is sufficient forward leaning range for extremecarving

The maximium your ankle can handle! Of course the maximun will be got on very strong turns only. This is why we say in the technical pages that the boots should have a system that prevents overbending of the ankle. And this is why the solution of a stiff shell with a rear spring system (or eventually a thrust) is the only one today that meets these requirements.

Jacques

[mrtko]

I read in some other threads that they recommend when not having a spring system on the raichle to ride them in walking mode.

Do some of you have any experiences and therefore general suggestions when not having a spring system on the raichle - how to ride them.

In normal setup or in walking mode!

[patmoore]

I leave my Raichles in walking mode almost all the time. If racing, I'll rotate the knob 90 degrees which gives the boots a flex range from 1-3. If I try to ride for any length of time like that, my quads give out.

Maybe if I was younger (I'm 59) my legs could handle it but not these days.

While we're on the discussion of boots, let me ask another question. My Raichles (I think it's a 324 model) have a defective buckle. It tends to seize up and not release. A shop told me it couldn't be replaced. I was interested in new boots anyhow. What do you recommend for someone my age who splits his time between carving the groomers and racing GS?

I'm 173 cm (5'8") tall and weigh 81kg (170 lb).

Much obliged,
Pat Moore

[Hans]

While we're on the discussion of boots, let me ask another question. My Raichles (I think it's a 324 model) have a defective buckle. It tends to seize up and not release. A shop told me it couldn't be replaced. I was interested in new boots anyhow. What do you recommend for someone my age who splits his time between carving the groomers and racing GS?

I'm 173 cm (5'8") tall and weigh 81kg (170 lb).

If you want to stay with Deeluxe/Raichle: I think some AF700 (INDY's) if you want them stiff. AF600/Suzuka's if you want them a little more flexible. http://www.bomberonline.com will sell/make a Mod springsystem for all Raichle/Deeluxe hardboots this season. I myself ride also AF700/Indy's but find them a little too stiff for cruisin' but good for bomberriding, I am 87 kgs.

Greets, Hans.

[patmoore]

Thanks Hans!

That's very helpful.

Pat

[mrtko]

If you want to stay with Deeluxe/Raichle: I think some AF700 (INDY's) if you want them stiff. AF600/Suzuka's if you want them a little more flexible. http://www.bomberonline.com will sell/make a Mod springsystem for all Raichle/Deeluxe hardboots this season. I myself ride also AF700/Indy's but find them a little too stiff for cruisin' but good for bomberriding, I am 87 kgs.

Well, Hans ....
I can´t help,
but you seem to be a real specialist in any (hard)boot question!
....
Thanks for all your replies

[Felix]

I always ride my AF600s locked. Open I loose feeling.

I have the back boot in position 4 (very strong forward lean) and the front boot in position 3 (=the standard middle one).

For Freeriding I close them both in position 2 (I might try 1 - however 1 is hard to dial in). Two much of a forward lean hinders me with flat angles (15°/35°). Position 2 needs less power with flat angles and allows for better counterrotation (which I really only do while freeriding). Having the boot closed in position 4 for freeriding on the chopped will make your thigs scream out if you don't do squats every day

[Silber]

While I am waiting for my new ACSS kit from Arnaud I have been riding both my Burton Reactor and my Blax Frank in walk mode as suggested from Patrice. First of all if you decide to ride open, be careful. Boots are not originally designed for such angles so the 2 plastic parts that make up the boot tend to get stuck in a very forward position -> the plastic of the heel comes out from its rail on the back part of the ankle piece. Last year in Zinal it happened to me and I could not get my foot out of the Burtons..and then it happened again with the Blax... Thus u might have to carve the bottom part on the heel so that it does not get stuck. See the thread about the head stratos modifications.

Once you have done it you will feel that when you push forward there is no resistance...very odd sensation. Riding race style becomes very very hard, thus you need to use the egyptian style, pushing and pulling.

What I have been doing lately is to ride with only the back boot in walk mode. That's because I noticed that only the back boot had the problem described above, which means that the front one does not need the same angle. It does receive way more pressure, so keeping it locked without too much forward helps to support the ankle but it still bends a lot.

Hope this helps

[raphael]

Along the tortuous path of snowboard evolution, clueless renters, and self teaching, i once rode the most strange set-up. It was a large assymetrical alpine board (can't rememeber the brand, but it must have been 21-22 cm at waist) mounted with... softboots.

And guess what... i loved it.
The board could do great things, and i had to learn no to rely on the boots, but on my center of gravity. It was a bit challenging at first, but that's when i discovered i was too stiff in my boots, and started to understand the surf roots of snowboarding. It was very teaching, I'd recommend everybody to ride softboots from time to time. I could easely lower my center of gravity and use my legs to feel the piste, and not just put the board on its side. I hope what i wrote makes a little sens, it's difficult to discribe.

I tried a complete soft setup, with a freestyle board, with a freeride board, with a bordercross board... None of them convinced me. For me there's nothing as good as alpine shape (or swallowtail shape).
And riding in walk-mode (or even better, without flex-control) helps keeping the sensation that your whole body is doing the job.
Now i can do some push-pull and i don't think i could have done it without the walk-mode (and this webiste, by the way ).

I still have to test a RAB.

I once felt my boots where not stiff enough because i was loosing control of the board. I now know it was a mistake, i was just trying to be stiff myself, wich isn't good. I really think push-pull is the key:
- make your legs be strong during push step, just when its absolutly necessary
- make your legs be loose and rest during pull step

If i don't do that, my legs become to stiff, and with tiredness they hurt and i loose control. That's when the idea of stiffening my boots usualy come. But i know the best is to rest and have a beer.

Well this all is about me. I don't pretend it to work for everybody.
But if you recognise yourself somewhere along my message, maybe you should try to ride differently instead of stiffening your boots.

[Silber]

Well, it's funny to read your post, because I am going through a similar path and gettin more and more into the swallow tail thing... just got my lancelot, but waiting for the swallowmania to get ther real thing...maybe a phenix...