Longboard-skaters do like EC - did you convert anybody else?

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raphael
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Longboard-skaters do like EC - did you convert anybody else?

Post by raphael » Sunday 2 October 2005, 13:53

When i decided to really improve my carving to achieve EC, i knew i had to find a summer trainer, because snowboarding 1 week a year isn't enough to improve anything.

That's why i came to gathering informations on street snowboarding, and ended up lurking on long skateboards forums.

Explaining what i was doing (or trying to do) I discovered lots of Longboard-skaters do like EC... they just don't know it... yet ! :twisted: :D

Last exemple to date:
talking about flexboardz and carveboards on silverfishlongboarding.com made them write this (without me asking :wink: ):
http://www.silverfishlongboarding.com/a ... 1021122703

Not everyone of them is interested, some like sliding, some say "i've already been doing V-turns for years, what's the point ?", others think it's something they won't ever be able to do,... but some people are really thrilled !

The word is still spreading...
Swoard 168M / Undertaker 185 + F2 Race Ti + tuned Raichle 324
Resorts : St Lary / Peyragudes / La Thuile
Carver toute l'année : carveboard.fr

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Post by raphael » Tuesday 4 October 2005, 16:01

Like me with some skaters, did you (directly or indirectly) influence somebody to come to EC ?
Swoard 168M / Undertaker 185 + F2 Race Ti + tuned Raichle 324
Resorts : St Lary / Peyragudes / La Thuile
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Post by surfinsmiley » Friday 11 November 2005, 11:31

ME! :D

I have been surfing and skatboarding my whole life and recently moved to Japan. I had my first year snowboarding last year and saw some Alpine boarders one day and then instantly knew that that was the direction I wanted to take my boarding.

Thanks to raphael, I`ve become a regular lurker on this forum!

I`m going to do the ultimate bad newbie thing here and totaly change the topic. :oops:




Having said that,....... I now want ask a question about boots?

Being my first year looking into EC style, I want to start with soft boots and work my way to hardboots as my skill/passion increases.

I Have a Rad Air Reto LSD 164 and will probably get some Catek Freerides for it but as for boots I`m still at a loss.

How do I choose?

Thanks.
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Starting on Soft or Hard?

Post by rcrobar » Friday 11 November 2005, 20:54

Welcome surfinsmiley

I’m going through a similar process as you, with regards to buying soft boots.

The boots that seemed to be mentioned most often by happy owners are the Salomon Malamute, the Burton DriverX and the Deluxee Spark. Riders seem to pick them because of the support, the foot/heel hold of the inner and outer boot combination, fewer pressure points, etc, etc. Basically the best combination of comfort, support, power and freedom to move.

It seems that the intended purpose of how the soft boots will be used is where our process differs.

I intend to use/try soft boots ONLY in powder. You mentioned that you are interested in ‘looking into the EC style’ then move into hard boots as your skill progressed. I think your equipment selection and plan of attack are good, but I would like to suggest another approach. Guess I’m changing the topic of the thread again :)

I would suggest starting with a set of plate bindings and hard boots. Start with (Example) a second hand pair of Burton plates ($100) and maybe a pair of the softest Raichle 413’s ($150) purchased from the classifieds.

OK, Why go this way?

If your favorite two snowboard tricks are the left and right turns:), toe side and heel side support are paramount. The issue ‘soft carvers’ mention most often is not enough toe side support, this *may* be an issue 50% of the time. The Catek guys are adding 3rd straps to gain a better toe side turn. Now, compare this to a SOFTER hard boot set up you can buy second hand and you will find that is will *probably* out perform the toe side power of a soft set up.

If you think you will be spending most of the time carving on groomed runs, consider a very soft hard boot set up as an entry point. Having said that, you really can’t go wrong either way. If you start with softies, it will only be a matter of time until you buy a hard set up. If you start with a hard set up, you will eventually end of with softies as well.

There are MANY very experience riders that will, I’m sure, jump in and give a bit of advice. Hope this has helped a bit to get things going.

Cheers and welcome again
Rob

PS - I’ve been lurking at the Long board site, thanks to Raphel as well:) Can’t wait to read your Flexboardz review.

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Post by surfinsmiley » Sunday 13 November 2005, 12:25

WOW, Thanks rcrobar, fantastic info there, I really appreciate the effort!

I`m fairly set on starting out on the soft boot path mostly due to the "wife friendly" areas I have to use most of the time :roll: .

Being newly married my leash isn`t very long yet and last season induced a couple of teary claims from the wife because she just had to come with me down that run that was just a bit too much.(She`s been sking for 30 years and I was in my 4th day of snowboarding ever......bloody girls)
So........ lots sightseeing trails for me with a few carves thrown in for good measure. :wink:

I`ll pick up the Freerides and then go boot shopping with your recomendations at the top of the priority list.

I`ll wait until the following season until I try the hardboots path. I know it will be just like longboarding, first you just want one, then, before you know it you`ve got a quiver.

Again thanks.

Keep on carving down the path of Life! 8)
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Post by Interactive Civilian » Sunday 13 November 2005, 13:29

[warning: off-topic]
surfinsmiley: Just moved to Tokyo, eh? Let me know if you want to get together and do some snowboarding this season (or if you want to get together for a beer sometime :) ).

I am still a n00bish soft boots, free-ride boarder using fairly basic equipment (lower end Burton stuff) working on carving as best as I can with what I have before upgrading to hard-boots and a SWOARD, and I still have a long way to go with my snowboarding (this will be my 4th season starting with my 10th time going), but EC is definitely the direction I am aiming for (though I intend to do some more freestyle and also back-country stuff this year...in fact, I just bought a helmet and some wrist guards for those purposes)...

Anyway, what are you doing in Tokyo? (i.e. what kind of work?) This is WAY Off Topic, so feel free to either PM me or email me at mamoru[at]gmail[dot]com with your responses. Hopefully we can get together and hit the slopes this season. :D

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Post by raphael » Tuesday 15 November 2005, 16:59

surfinsmiley wrote:I`m fairly set on starting out on the soft boot path mostly due to the "wife friendly" areas I have to use most of the time :roll: .

Being newly married my leash isn`t very long yet and last season induced a couple of teary claims from the wife because she just had to come with me down that run that was just a bit too much.(She`s been sking for 30 years and I was in my 4th day of snowboarding ever......bloody girls)
So........ lots sightseeing trails for me with a few carves thrown in for good measure. :wink:

I`ll pick up the Freerides and then go boot shopping with your recomendations at the top of the priority list.

I`ll wait until the following season until I try the hardboots path. I know it will be just like longboarding, first you just want one, then, before you know it you`ve got a quiver.
I don't see the point in your choice. 8O

Whatever softboots or hardboots you have won't change the pistes you go to.
Well, except that maybe with softboots you'll prefer off-piste. :wink:

I don't think at all it's a beginner issue. Begining hardboots seems much easier to me, at least you feel that you control something. Unless you take lessons and expensive board and bidings you won't learn much with softboots. Take an easy freecarve with cheap alpine bidings and boots, it will be better on every point (except off-piste, but if your wife is a skier, she might not love it either).
Even if i'm not a super rider, I practiced hardboots and softboots for some years. I know the differences. :rules:

Learning alone with softboots is the best way for your body to learn wooden legs and counter-rotation, everything you'll have to unlearn later.
And don't think of learning carving with such gear, for it will take much longer (i really mean MUCH) than with an alpine gear (if you ever achieve it). With an alpine board it is not-to-carve that way sometimes seem difficult. ;)

For a beginner i'd recommand a middle sized freecarve board (160 and more) with short sidecut (i'd say 9m is nice), large waist (for an alpine 210 mm would be a minimum) and not to stiff. For exemple: a 150 lbs 6 feet rider could try the F2 Speedcross 161W, it would be a good (and cheap) starting point.
If your board is large at waist (more than 210mm) you will even appreciate off piste with it.

Donek sells an excellent board for that: the Axis.

Regarding money, a second hand board is certainly a good solution. Don't forget good second-hand alpine boards are cheap because alpine is unpopular.

Don't take a too stiff board, look carefully at the recommanded weigth. You should maybe buy a board aimed for riders a bit lighter than you. Of course if your legs are superpowerful don't follow this advice.

While learning don't try to bomb speed. For carving deep turns, strong legs or a soft board will help better. But don't go to slow neither. Moderate speed and staying on the edge is the key.
For good snowboarding don't forget to flex legs (always) and rotate your shoulders inside of the turn (whatever you think you will never do it enough).
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Resorts : St Lary / Peyragudes / La Thuile
Carver toute l'année : carveboard.fr

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Post by raphael » Tuesday 15 November 2005, 17:29

Patrice, Jacques or any instructor would be welcome to confirm or correct my claims. ;)
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Post by surfinsmiley » Friday 18 November 2005, 8:28

Hmmm......... So I am forced to rethink my ideas after two of you suggest hardboots for a learner. Please bear with me I`m a complete Noobie to snow sports.

I was under the impression that hardboots would be much more difficult to use in general.........Not so huh?

My Rad Air reto lamm board is 164 length, 255mm waist with a 10.5 M sidecut, is it good for learning to carve trenchs?

Can I fit hardboot plates onto a "normal" board(as opposed to a race board) without fear of breaking it?

Thanks for all all good feedback guys.
It is much appreciated. :wink:
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Post by raphael » Friday 18 November 2005, 13:52

surfinsmiley> you'd better re-ask your questions in another thread. Because it seems that most people don't read this one because of its longskate-oriented title. :wink:
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Resorts : St Lary / Peyragudes / La Thuile
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Hard Boots Not Always 'Harder'

Post by rcrobar » Friday 18 November 2005, 16:41

Hey again
surfinsmiley wrote:Hmmm......... So I am forced to rethink my ideas after two of you suggest hardboots for a learner. Please bear with me I`m a complete Noobie to snow sports.

You are a Noobie to snowboarding, but you have a lifetime of surfing and longboarding. I think you will take to a hardboot set up like a duck takes to water!
surfinsmiley wrote:I was under the impression that hardboots would be much more difficult to use in general.........Not so huh?

Yes and no.

If you buy the stiffest hardboots, the stiffest bindings, a very narrow and stiff board, set your feet at very high angles ... then yes it *can* be very difficult. (This is part of the reason why the Swoard exists)

If you buy the softest hardboots, softer plates, then you put them on any standard freerideboard, set your stance angles to the surf/skate angles you like ... then it can be *very* easy. I would suggest that it *may* be easier than softboots, because of the toeside support.
surfinsmiley wrote:My Rad Air reto lamm board is 164 length, 255mm waist with a 10.5 M sidecut, is it good for learning to carve trenchs?
Yes, any board can carve!

You are going to have A LOT of fun this winter :)

Rob

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Post by rilliet » Sunday 20 November 2005, 17:40

I totaly agree with Raphael an rcrobar!
Hardbooting is very easy if you take a rather soft equipment. My wife learned snowboarding on a Swoard, a pair of old Raichle (Deeluxe Lemans now) and Burton bindings. She tried a freeride board once and felt so unsafe that she went back to he Swoard after one piste only. She never rode a skateboard or any other similar sport and was not so good at skiing.

IMHO your riding desires lead you strait to (soft) hardbooting.

Jacques

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Post by raphael » Monday 21 November 2005, 10:57

I thought (Jacques) Rilliet's answer was not totally clear about your hardboots+freeride board issue.
So i asked him again:
raphael wrote:Actually i was wondering what your thoughts would be about Rob's suggestion of putting hardboots on Surfinsmiley's freeride board (255m waist). The goal being to learn carving. I don't have any experience with hardboots on this kind of board, i feared it wouldn't be good.
Here's Jacque's answer (translated by me :? :oops: )
rilliet wrote:It wouldn't make much sense if he uses freestyle angles. And the board being that large, he doesn't have much choice.
I hope it helps. :wink:
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i love my longboard

Post by tigger » Tuesday 22 November 2005, 10:17

... it helps me to get over the summer, i also started downhillracing this summer. a great thrill :lol:
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Post by McFussel » Tuesday 22 November 2005, 10:24

@Tigger: /&))/)"&(%"!="=/"(%!&!="!/§""=(/%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Looks great, but.....Wuuuhhhaaaaaaa.....lokks quite dangerous too.....together with downhilling: Hope you got a good inshurance!
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