hardboots for EC: another approach

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rahan31
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hardboots for EC: another approach

Post by rahan31 » Sunday 29 April 2018, 19:05

Hello everyone from the deep south of France. Forgive me for the translation, I do my best...

It's Nils it seems to me that had made a post detailing the specifications of the ideal shoe: shoe and especially rigid collar, no friction in the pivot between the two, flexible junction and of course spring system to adjust the flexion. The goal is to have only the stiffness of the spring as a setting parameter.
Reading this post I thought that the evolution of modern touring shoes brought them closer to these criteria. A kind of homecoming since at the beginning of alpine surfing, we turned off touring shoes before the arrival of dedicated hardboots...

It was the release of Arc'Teryx Procline last season that gave me brain boiling, it really met the specifications, just need to put springs ... After test I was disappointed, the design of the necklace in three parts (a rear plus two side) that if we remove the back to put the springs we lose the lateral rigidity (they are designed for that by the way). I was pleasantly surprised by the quality of the footwear and maintaining the kick despite the compact hull.
It is from there that I added a line to the specifications: length of the shoe. I am very pleased with my modified Raichle 124 (no more excessive deformation of the hull with the springs and the ablation of some plastic) then to change as much to have something to gain: shorten the length, system of springs included, to gain some precious degree of angle on the board.

I tried and measured all the models that I could to build a database. The shorter ones are often the lightest and of a design rather turned towards the climbing in touring, with minimalist maintenance system just like the liner, not good ... The models more typed for descent see their length increase in variable proportions but some could be modified. The best compromise seemed to be the Atomic Backland, especially the carbon version. An output of the year more than 600 euros anyway ...
This season I'm going back to the game because the Backlands of last year are in sales or are starting to arrive on used conditions. I look at the technical data and there Wow, they are still strong Austrians! Hull and liner thermoformable, two rigidities of tongues in the catalog (carbon model), frictionless pivot and possibility of simply disassemble the original system of hook to replace it by an ACSS (return to the origin possible thus).
I found a used pair at my size in good condition for 200 euros so no excuse, I start!
Here is the result:
atomicfinies.jpg
It works great, I could only try them one day because just finished at the end of the season but it was conclusive. A max of flexion available and the need to harden the springs, usually it is the right opposite!
About comfort, I had prepared to suffer with the touring liners but it was bearable even on a big day (it's not slippers either huh!).
Level settings: I immediately found what I needed and did not change the whole day, very good support and great lateral rigidity.
I could try flexible tongues, it is bluffing, there is no more than the springs that work in this case, it feels good.
Compared to Raichle I gain 13 mm overall length and especially 900 g per shoe ...
Compatibility bindings: OK on the Phiokka but their calipers are very bulky and we lose a little length ... So I mounted Snowpro calipers (always available!) And there it's fine.
On the F2 Titanium the front caliper is perfect but the rear caliper is too high and the shoe takes off, solution: replace it front intec caliper adjustable in height: validated
On the Emery race / Rossignol Race, perfect no changes
On the Redline, I promise to test it quickly ....
atomicflexionmax.jpg
atomicflexionmax.jpg (178.7 KiB) Viewed 1626 times
The test being conclusive I offered them real liners:
atomicpalau2.jpg
atomicpalau2.jpg (135.2 KiB) Viewed 1626 times
Basically I took the problem in the opposite direction, instead of softening rigid shoes, I harden shoes designed to have no friction.
There I take fun testing springs, we can vary from a very flexible configuration (free ride), medium (EC) to very hard (race) all without changing the pair ...
I made an abacus (power / operating lenght) for fourteen springs configurations, single or double.

Hard testing next season...
ECpro161M,F2,Raichle124+ACSS+Palau
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nils
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Re: hardboots for EC: another approach

Post by nils » Monday 30 April 2018, 9:43

Thank you !!
Pokkis, we can have your insight too :)
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Matti
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Re: hardboots for EC: another approach

Post by Matti » Wednesday 2 May 2018, 20:17

First proto, mondo 25,5 / 278mm.
I can set even 45/45 degrees :bravo: .
I hope I´ll have real dual-boots - for Pro and Dual using different springs.
Backland weight is 900 g and .950 weight is 1900 g. Plus softboots weight...
Thanks Pokkis and rahan31 :chinese: .
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Re: hardboots for EC: another approach

Post by Matti » Wednesday 2 May 2018, 20:21

Problem with Redline :think: .
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Re: hardboots for EC: another approach

Post by Matti » Wednesday 2 May 2018, 20:58

Part of solution.
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Re: hardboots for EC: another approach

Post by Matti » Thursday 3 May 2018, 11:48

Final system...hopefully.
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Re: hardboots for EC: another approach

Post by nils » Thursday 3 May 2018, 16:36

Hello Matti
No backside spring? :)
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Re: hardboots for EC: another approach

Post by pokkis » Thursday 3 May 2018, 16:57

I've adjusted all my boots so upright position that i dont need backside spring.
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Re: hardboots for EC: another approach

Post by Matti » Thursday 3 May 2018, 17:12

nils wrote:Hello Matti
No backside spring? :)
Nils
Hello Nils,

Never used backside spring.
I can adjust the angle as I want.
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Re: hardboots for EC: another approach

Post by rahan31 » Thursday 7 June 2018, 18:35

Welcome aboard Matti!

I tried the Redline too:
redlineglobal.jpg
redlineglobal.jpg (89.72 KiB) Viewed 1202 times
Yes there is a little space on the rear sides.
redlinedetail.jpg
redlinedetail.jpg (81.18 KiB) Viewed 1202 times
But for me it's not a problem, the boot don't move, retention is good.
Same thing on my Phiokka, already ride them and nothing moved.
atomicPhiokka.jpg
atomicPhiokka.jpg (186.46 KiB) Viewed 1202 times
@Matti: Did you use aloy or staintess steel for the U shape part? Aloy is not strong enough for the pivot system and will ovalise. The spring you use looks pretty stiff (about 634 N if ISO10243), all I tried were softer. The hardest I have is 547 N and I will not use it. For using softer springs I use a 5 mm rod instead of a 6 mm one. Don't forget to secure the lower nut when riding.

I just start a second pair for a friend, backland carvers family is growing!
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Tomba
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Re: hardboots for EC: another approach

Post by Tomba » Tuesday 28 August 2018, 13:10

Can anyone compare this boot to .950 or even better .951?
I am looking for new boots to replace my upz, since I find them too stiff on forward flex (with red tongue and springs).... I am too lightweight for them :D
Go with .951 or atomic? Price is less important, need to modify is also not a problem...

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Re: hardboots for EC: another approach

Post by pokkis » Tuesday 28 August 2018, 15:34

I have both and ride only off-piste with Atomics. I don't want kill my ankles.
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Re: hardboots for EC: another approach

Post by joemzl » Tuesday 28 August 2018, 17:22

Tomba wrote:
Tuesday 28 August 2018, 13:10
...,since I find them too stiff on forward flex (with red tongue and springs).... I am too lightweight for them :D
Red tongue and original springs or ACSS?
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Re: hardboots for EC: another approach

Post by Tomba » Tuesday 28 August 2018, 22:27

Acss

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Re: hardboots for EC: another approach

Post by joel » Wednesday 29 August 2018, 13:52

I'm 1m72/60kg... and red tongues + acss is just perfect...
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