Softboot carving : some info & lot of questions...

[g2florette]

Hi,

Since I 've seen the perfect softboot style in this vid ( from 0'18" to 0'48") that I thinked impossible, it became obvious that my only quest would be learning this magic moves with softboot stuff. Why softboots ? Maybe because it's more difficult for carving ? Maybe because it seems impossible ? Probably because the gear is more easy to get. I've 15 years of hardboots snowboarding until 2003-2004, then I'm concentrating on ski and the softboot project give me a new motivation.
I've seen thousands of times the excellent vid tutos of funcarve.com by Aleksander : Body rotation, push'n'pull, frontside laid-down, and the graal, the backside laid-down.
I've loved the first evidence that EC in soft boots is possible.

I've read all I've found on the Net about EC : EC site, this forum, the SSBS manual and all the excellent pages on the recent english version of funcarve.ru, funcarve.com : http://funcarve.com/theory-of-carving-a ... emecarving.

I've bought swoard DUAL 163 + Flow NX2 GT + Ride Insano books and after ~15 days of riding and 2-3 vids, one thing became clear... I've not, on the slope, the style I've in mind

So, 2 big decisions :
- first, I come to Zinal ECS where I hope catch 1) some beers in cool ambiance with other passinated riders AND 2) some advices to boost my poor level
- second, post here my problems to, maybe, have some answers...

My big worry is, obvsiously, the backside, and my questions are all about it, directly or not :

- CHOICES OF BINDINGS AND TUNING :
--- I've read on funcarve.com that it's important to rotate the highback parallel to the backside edge. Is it VERY important ? (because not all the bindings allow this tuning. My Flow doesn't...) ?
--- Is it important to choose the stiffest stuff ???? Or another combination (stiff bindings, softer boots for exemple) could be better, to have more freedom to move the body in turns ?
--- forward lean : my think is to have important forward lean, especially for back foot (because of body rotation). Good idea ? I think it's maybe the reason of my tired front leg (thigh) after 2 hours of ride... Am i right ?
--- I've read on SSBS manual that a too big ankle strap is not a good idea because a totally blocked ankle can't participate to the bend and cause an impossibility to keep the back straight when knees are bended. Not very stylish...
--- With all these constraints, and the thing that I don't really love my Flow (especially forward lean tuning), I've looked for some bindings specifically adapted for carving. Could I have some advices : Burton : Diod, Genesis, Cartel ; Union : Atlas (Charger are stiifer but highback don't rotate) ; Drake : Supersport, Radar (but I don't know if spoiler rotate) ; Ride : Capo...
- SETBACK : do yout think it's a good idea to have some setback. It seems to me I've a better support on backside edge with 2cm setback on my DUAL...
- STANCE : I'm 1,76m, 70 Kg. I've 49cm stance. Do you think minimize it would facilitate the backside ?
- BODY ROTATION AND ANGLES : it seems one of the key points of the backside. Big rotation shoulders and torso to be nearly face to the snow. Very hard to obtain in soft boots. I've 30/15 angulation, I'm trying 36/30 now. It's easier but still very difficult. Do you think it's a problem of my poor body "flex", or I've to raise again my angles a little...
- OVERTURNING : it's very difficult for me to not overturn in backside. I think it's because when I rotate the body I charge too much the front leg, but how to maintain the weight of the backfoot in this position ??? It's a big mystery for me, for the moment... Have you any solution or genius advice for me ???
- BACK KNEE : In my alpine old life, I put the back knee into the front during the backside. Is it a good pratice or not in softboots context ?
- INCLINATION : another key point... On the funcarve vid tuto, it seems to me that in the backside, at the end of the pull phase, the body had to be inclined simultaneously to the center of the turn AND to the tail... Reality, or illusion of my tired youtubed eyes ?

I lived in Marseille, far from snow (but near the windy sea which allows to replace snow by kite in "snowsurfing" ), so I've some little toys to train myself year-round :
- a carveboard (http://www.carveusa.com/product_carveboard.html) : do you think it's a good way for training ??? It'spossible to incline... Before I try to go into the swiss/russian style, we've published a little funny vid, with teasers one and two...
- a carver skate board, very funny for the long corridors of the campus where I work. Presentation vid. The key point is the C7 "surkskate" truck, allowing the pumping. Another time, do you think it's a good way for training ???

I'll bring my two toys in Zinal for you to try And a little waveboard too, very funny for smaller places...

Thanks for any advices/asnwers.

See you in Zinal.

G.

[fivat]

Petr is the guy for you. See his post and his awesome video here: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=11349

He will teach as Swoard EC instructor during the Swoard ECS in Zinal. He will take his hard boots, but also his soft boots.

Some friends from funcarve.com (who have learned our EC technique from our Website/videos and make now great job in their school) will be present too.



Patrice Fivat

[Parallax]

Hi,
I've bought swoard DUAL 163 + Flow NX2 GT + Ride Insano boots

It's very good choice!

My big worry is, obvsiously, the backside, and my questions are all about it, directly or not :

- CHOICES OF BINDINGS AND TUNING :
--- I've read on funcarve.com that it's important to rotate the highback parallel to the backside edge. Is it VERY important ? (because not all the bindings allow this tuning. My Flow doesn't...) ?
--- Is it important to choose the stiffest stuff ???? Or another combination (stiff bindings, softer boots for exemple) could be better, to have more freedom to move the body in turns ?
--- forward lean : my think is to have important forward lean, especially for back foot (because of body rotation). Good idea ? I think it's maybe the reason of my tired front leg (thigh) after 2 hours of ride... Am i right ?
--- I've read on SSBS manual that a too big ankle strap is not a good idea because a totally blocked ankle can't participate to the bend and cause an impossibility to keep the back straight when knees are bended. Not very stylish...

- Yes,it's important to rotate the highbacks of your binding, if you set them on angles more then 25-30 grads. But Flow doesn't need to do this, due wide upper strap!
- Stiffness is important when you have a high level of carving, but whan you are just learning - it can affect some problems.
- Yes, the forward lean of the highback help us to control our board more quickly. More fast response. Due the directional basic position the backfoot hidhback must have more forward lean, then frontfoot. It'll help you to control backside turn better.
- I don't think so.. Some of my friends happy to use Flow for softboot carving..

--- With all these constraints, and the thing that I don't really love my Flow (especially forward lean tuning), I've looked for some bindings specifically adapted for carving. Could I have some advices : Burton : Diod, Genesis, Cartel ; Union : Atlas (Charger are stiifer but highback don't rotate) ; Drake : Supersport, Radar (but I don't know if spoiler rotate) ; Ride : Capo...

No, no, you have a good bindings, don't change them at all.

- SETBACK : do yout think it's a good idea to have some setback. It seems to me I've a better support on backside edge with 2cm setback on my DUAL...
- STANCE : I'm 1,76m, 70 Kg. I've 49cm stance. Do you think minimize it would facilitate the backside ?

I don't recommend to use the setback. When you are learning to carve, it's very important to feel the radius of turn of your board, and try to keep your centered position untill the end of the turn. After that you will be able to return in center position on any time you want. It'll help you to control the speed and radius of turn, and to do longitudinal motion in Push'n'Pull.
It's hard to advice the wide of your stance by internet There is one simple way to find it, but it'll be hard to discribe it by words )

- BODY ROTATION AND ANGLES : it seems one of the key points of the backside. Big rotation shoulders and torso to be nearly face to the snow. Very hard to obtain in soft boots. I've 30/15 angulation, I'm trying 36/30 now. It's easier but still very difficult. Do you think it's a problem of my poor body "flex", or I've to raise again my angles a little...
- OVERTURNING : it's very difficult for me to not overturn in backside. I think it's because when I rotate the body I charge too much the front leg, but how to maintain the weight of the backfoot in this position ??? It's a big mystery for me, for the moment... Have you any solution or genius advice for me ???
- BACK KNEE : In my alpine old life, I put the back knee into the front during the backside. Is it a good pratice or not in softboots context ?

You shouldn't rotate your shuolderrs so much!! ))) It's one of the Myths about Extremecarving.
Maximum - 90 rads! When your chest is looking to the nose of snowboard.

When human twists on one of his foot, hi move ALL his wieght to this foot. Another foot will be totaly unweighted. Do some experiments on the floor, and you will feel it.
So, when your are rotate your body so much, you literaly move your weight to the nose of snowboard, and unweigted tail going to drift around you. You must load maximum of edge length of the board to keep your board in carved turn.

If you will keep your knees together - you willn't be able to do vertical motion on maximum amplitude.. It's not a good idea.

- INCLINATION : another key point... On the funcarve vid tuto, it seems to me that in the backside, at the end of the pull phase, the body had to be inclined simultaneously to the center of the turn AND to the tail... Reality, or illusion of my tired youtubed eyes ?

Yeah, a little bit.
This is the longitudinal motion on board,- in the end of turn you need to load the backfoot a little bit more. It'll help you to keep your board in carve on the high speed..

Another time, do you think it's a good way for training ???

Everythink is a good way to trainin!!

Two years ago i tried classic oceanic surfning. I was surprised how similar extremecarving and surfing technique of turns. The Flexion and extension of knees, body rotation, the longitudinal motion on board - it's very similar!!

[Parallax]

Some friends from funcarve.com (who have learned our EC technique from our Website/videos and make now great job in their school) will be present too.

Yeaaah Patrice!
We are going to Zinal from 16.01 till 31.01 ))

Our descente counts 18 persons!!

[fivat]

Alexander, we can already ride together on 18-19-20 January!

Two years ago i tried classic oceanic surfing. I was surprised how similar extremecarving and surfing technique of turns. The Flexion and extension of knees, body rotation, the longitudinal motion on board - it's very similar!!

Yes, our style is directly inspired from surfing. On water, one has to be in harmony with the board. Rotation is required because the feet are not bound to the board: one can't cheat. That's why this has always been my philosophy on the snow too.

Recently we have been talking a lot about this in the French Forum here (use Google translator) when I came back from surfing in Hossegor (France). The discussed point is mainly the "duck stance"... which is NOT used in surfing... This is something to think about.

See you soon!

Patrice Fivat

[H2O]

It's hard to advice the wide of your stance by internet There is one simple way to find it, but it'll be hard to discribe it by words )

Interesting!
Please, can you describe what is your method?
Thks

[Parallax]

It's difficult to discribe by words..

I'll try to make a video tutorial on board as soon as i can, may be on ECS 2014.

[H2O]

It's difficult to discribe by words..

I'll try to make a video tutorial on board as soon as i can, may be on ECS 2014.

Ok, thanks, see you on ECS 2014 !

[Parallax]

Yeaah, see you

I will be ridin in da Burton green-grey puffy jacket. And i wear white helmet with many stickers (stickerbombing).

[H2O]

for me: black jacket, black pants (but may be also multicolor Burton pants) and pink helmet with many stickers (above all Swoard stickers)

[g2florette]

Black pants, grey jacket, brown weather-like helmet... with no stickers
Purple boots with yellow sole.
And no hair under the helmet

[PhaethonF1]

Greetings from Greece...
I've been snowboarding (and skiing) for many many years, but got a bit into EC the last 1-2. I'm on softboots and a K2 Podium 162 (K2 Indy bindings). I'm trying to polish my technique and thought this forum could be very helpful both for learning more on EC and also selecting my gear whenever the time comes.

Keep up the good work

[PhaethonF1]

Hello, softboot carvers

Today I tried something different on my setup. I narrowed the stance width by 2 holes (one hole inwards for each binding) to see what happens. Looks like (as predicted) the turns got much tighter, which was both good and bad, in a sense that it provided more lateral resistance for a moment, but there was little time to lay down and get up smooth. Additionally, the stability at drift turns was drastically worse.
I still cannot get very low on back side, but I think my equipment starts to show its limitations (board/bindings/boots, quite hard for other things, but soft for hard carving). The board edges out before I can persuasively touch the snow. I'm thinking of widening back the stance width a bit, but I'm not sure where to go with stance itself (backwards or center). I'm currently set at 45F, 40R angles, which helps a bit with reducing the need for over-rotation on the backside, but does not provide much support and weight transfer while on backside. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated...

[Abrax]

Hello carvers!
My thoughts:
1. 45/40 is not really a best way to go. Such high angles will reduce board's stability while flat on a surface. We usually advice as low back angle as possible but under condition that there is no boot overhang. Front foot usually goes 5-7 degrees more. Some fing their angles like 33/18 and others prefer 27/20. This is not that much important. Much more importance lays in the proper response in between your edge / leg. If you use 9/10 boots and bindings, the side response for the movement will be transfered to the edge in much greater sense than while your setups are 5/10. On 5/10 the setup should be much more forgiving but on the other hand extreme controll may be harder to achieve.

2. Setting setback makes board nose to act a bit better (longer nose works softer). But as Sasha said, there will be a bit less feeling of the sidecut radius. More to say, the more weight on back of the board, the longer the turn will be.

3.

The board edges out before I can persuasively touch the snow.

What board do you use?

[PhaethonF1]

Thank you for your response, Abrax, I will try this next time. My only concern is that with lower angles the backside will feel too much... on my back, so that I will have to twist more to lay down. But I guess only trying will tell.

The board is a K2 Podium 2010 (length 163, I'm 1,79cm/74kg). Boots are an older version of Salomon Synapse and bindings are K2 Indy. The whole setup used to feel medium-hard... until I started pushing it to the limit with EC...