Hello everyone, I'm a longtime bomberonline user and have always browsed the extremecarver forums but never posted. So here I am. I am a US citizen living on the east coast, and I feel alone! I have given up "bomber" or "race" or "angulation" style and been really pushing hard to learn the Swiss rotational style. My teachers have only been videos and articles posted here and wherever else I can find them...All the other hardbooters I run into use the racing style.
I had trouble using the race style to control my speed especially on icy or steep terrain, but progressed to the early advanced/late intermediate stage using it. I never "mastered" race technique, but I did have a respectable form. BUT lately I've made a huge leap in my riding technique by using only rotation!! I find it so much more relaxing, precise, fluid, and graceful than the race style. On steeps (icy single/double black diamonds here) I am much more confident heelside using pure rotation.
I am currently riding a donek metal freecarve. So far the board has been amazing...but I wish the waist was a little bigger (it's 20cm). I want to use lower angles, but I am stuck using 57* front, 55* back, and even that is cutting it close (I wear MP27.5 boots, UPZ RC10).
So I have a few questions:
I am worried I might be missing something important if I just abandon the race technique...rotation is working much better for me and I enjoy it more. Thoughts? Should I try to master race technique before rotation?
Needless to say, laying out is one of my goals - should I spend the money on a swoard and sell the donek? I worry about our narrow northeast US trails here and the 12-13m sidecut of the swoard (I would be getting a 168). I can crank turns very hard, but I'm wondering if the bigger sidecut will require too much speed here.
Anyone else use the UPZ RC10's? Without other boots to compare them to, I'm not sure if I'm getting enough flex (I weigh 145lbs/66kg and ride aggressively). Are there any videos or benchmarks I could use to determine if I'm getting enough flex out of them?
Let me see if i can get a video of me riding - any tips would be greatly appreciated!!
Thank you
So lonely on the US east coast...
Moderators: fivat, rilliet, Arnaud, nils
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corviuscorvax
- Rank 2
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Monday 11 February 2013, 5:17
Re: So lonely on the US east coast...
Hi and welcome,
First, no, you do not have to master "race" technique before learning "rotation". And I would say it is even better, indeed when you are mastering a style, could be tricky to get rid of your habits when ridding, espacially when ridding steep and icy slopes... and from my experience, people starting from scratch will get rotation technique faster than someone used to another technique.
Then regarding slope and snow condition in your area: swoard is proposing several board sizes and for each several flex, we can take huge advantage of that. For example, I started with a 175S (I'm 1m88 tall and 70kg) but it is true that I was taking speed on hard snow during the turn, and on narrow slope it was sometimes difficult to chain turn with a good fluid rotation style. But I switched on a 168M and it is much better for me, more control of speed when snow is harder and slopes are narrow. I do not know how tall you are but you can also take into consideration the snow and slopes conditions where you are usually riding to choose the board. Ex: a softer board will have a better grip and will be more suitable in icy condition.
Regarding the boots, most of them (not to say all of them
) required some customization to have more flex and being able to bent the knees in the transition (pull). People on this forum are using UPZ and sure can help, I think that the ACSS system (you can find post regarding that) can be used for UPZ...
When we all started, we were all "poor lonely rider", learning manely for vids posted here and there (Patrice and Jacques vids were a great way to progress for me
). The best remain to ride with others and share, and this is the GREAT thing with this forum/community. I'm sure there are some swoard riders in east US cost, and one of them is EXtremeBrooklyn who was at the ECS this year.
My 2 cents
Anthony.
First, no, you do not have to master "race" technique before learning "rotation". And I would say it is even better, indeed when you are mastering a style, could be tricky to get rid of your habits when ridding, espacially when ridding steep and icy slopes... and from my experience, people starting from scratch will get rotation technique faster than someone used to another technique.
Then regarding slope and snow condition in your area: swoard is proposing several board sizes and for each several flex, we can take huge advantage of that. For example, I started with a 175S (I'm 1m88 tall and 70kg) but it is true that I was taking speed on hard snow during the turn, and on narrow slope it was sometimes difficult to chain turn with a good fluid rotation style. But I switched on a 168M and it is much better for me, more control of speed when snow is harder and slopes are narrow. I do not know how tall you are but you can also take into consideration the snow and slopes conditions where you are usually riding to choose the board. Ex: a softer board will have a better grip and will be more suitable in icy condition.
Regarding the boots, most of them (not to say all of them
) required some customization to have more flex and being able to bent the knees in the transition (pull). People on this forum are using UPZ and sure can help, I think that the ACSS system (you can find post regarding that) can be used for UPZ...When we all started, we were all "poor lonely rider", learning manely for vids posted here and there (Patrice and Jacques vids were a great way to progress for me
). The best remain to ride with others and share, and this is the GREAT thing with this forum/community. I'm sure there are some swoard riders in east US cost, and one of them is EXtremeBrooklyn who was at the ECS this year.My 2 cents
Anthony.
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tali
- Moderator
- Posts: 651
- Joined: Sunday 4 January 2009, 1:41
- Location: Mount St. Louis Moonstone, Ontario
Re: So lonely on the US east coast...
Hi, where do you normally ride in US?corviuscorvax wrote:I worry about our narrow northeast US trails here
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corviuscorvax
- Rank 2
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Monday 11 February 2013, 5:17
Re: So lonely on the US east coast...
Thank you all for the responses. I got a few PM's from members as well - very nice community here. I am riding in Pennsylvania/ Pocono Mtns area. Really nothing special. Most of the time people just stare at me awkwardly when I ride the hardboot setup haha. 
Re: the RC10's, is riding in walk mode viable? I am 5'10" (so about 1.7meters).
Re: the RC10's, is riding in walk mode viable? I am 5'10" (so about 1.7meters).
Rotational Technique
Hello
The more tricks and experiences you have up your sleave, the better the rider you will be in the long run.
That said, mastering a more race oriented technique has little or no affect on your progress with the rotational technique. If anything, your previous learning is going to cause you a bit of grief as the techniques are in some ways in opposition of each other. I get the impression you are ready and interested in a change, so I would focus only on the rotation for awhile; I say this only because jumping from one technique to the other 'may' cause muscle/brian/learning confusion. The degree to this happening, if it happens at all, really depends on the rider.
The Swoard 12 - 13m sidecut can turn VERY tight turns, BUT only if the rider is the master of his board and technique. I have let friends us my Swoard, guys who are still learning the rotational technique, and seen the big sidecut having them heading for the trees at the side of the slope. The cool thing about an EC specific board is that the boards' characteristics that are designed to 'optimize' an EC board also make it a VERY forgiving, general use, cruise around type board. I mention this because turning a Swoard does not require huge speed. BUT, the rider must be in control of his technique and the board .... for really, really narrow slopes. IF the board is taking YOU for a ride, and you are just hanging on for dear life, then the larger 12 - 13m sidecut MAY be a bit much on a very narrow run. Defining tight turns on a narrow run is very subject depending on the rider and his experiences. IMHO I think slowing down and using a board with a smaller sidecut is both fun and will allow you to relax and focus on learning a new technique.
So, should you buy a Swoard? Well, I love mine and would say yes:) But in reality you can of course use ANY board to learn the rotational technique, anything from a freeride DUAL type board to a race board. I think I would be more concerned about my stance angles being set up to optimize the rotational technique, even if you have a fair bit of boot over hang. 'Boot Out' will probably only occur when you are really leaning way over in a turn, once you are consistently doing this treat yourself to a Swoard.
I would really suggest using a skateboard or carveboard in the summertime, this will have a huge and positive affect on your winter time carving with regards to the rotational technique.
I hope this helps a bit.
Cheers
Rob
corviuscorvax wrote:I am worried I might be missing something important if I just abandon the race technique...rotation is working much better for me and I enjoy it more. Thoughts? Should I try to master race technique before rotation?
The more tricks and experiences you have up your sleave, the better the rider you will be in the long run.
That said, mastering a more race oriented technique has little or no affect on your progress with the rotational technique. If anything, your previous learning is going to cause you a bit of grief as the techniques are in some ways in opposition of each other. I get the impression you are ready and interested in a change, so I would focus only on the rotation for awhile; I say this only because jumping from one technique to the other 'may' cause muscle/brian/learning confusion. The degree to this happening, if it happens at all, really depends on the rider.
corviuscorvax wrote:Needless to say, laying out is one of my goals - should I spend the money on a swoard and sell the donek? I worry about our narrow northeast US trails here and the 12-13m sidecut of the swoard (I would be getting a 168). I can crank turns very hard, but I'm wondering if the bigger sidecut will require too much speed here.
The Swoard 12 - 13m sidecut can turn VERY tight turns, BUT only if the rider is the master of his board and technique. I have let friends us my Swoard, guys who are still learning the rotational technique, and seen the big sidecut having them heading for the trees at the side of the slope. The cool thing about an EC specific board is that the boards' characteristics that are designed to 'optimize' an EC board also make it a VERY forgiving, general use, cruise around type board. I mention this because turning a Swoard does not require huge speed. BUT, the rider must be in control of his technique and the board .... for really, really narrow slopes. IF the board is taking YOU for a ride, and you are just hanging on for dear life, then the larger 12 - 13m sidecut MAY be a bit much on a very narrow run. Defining tight turns on a narrow run is very subject depending on the rider and his experiences. IMHO I think slowing down and using a board with a smaller sidecut is both fun and will allow you to relax and focus on learning a new technique.
So, should you buy a Swoard? Well, I love mine and would say yes:) But in reality you can of course use ANY board to learn the rotational technique, anything from a freeride DUAL type board to a race board. I think I would be more concerned about my stance angles being set up to optimize the rotational technique, even if you have a fair bit of boot over hang. 'Boot Out' will probably only occur when you are really leaning way over in a turn, once you are consistently doing this treat yourself to a Swoard.
I would really suggest using a skateboard or carveboard in the summertime, this will have a huge and positive affect on your winter time carving with regards to the rotational technique.
I hope this helps a bit.
Cheers
Rob
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corviuscorvax
- Rank 2
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Monday 11 February 2013, 5:17
Re: So lonely on the US east coast...
Rob, thanks for the advice. I think a Swoard is in my near future...I can handle the tight trails ok if I am making very light turns, and when I have even moderate speed I feel comfortable enough to turn a board over. With the angles I'm running now, I think I may be experiencing boot out on my heel edge, but this could also be due to wrong technique. In an ideal, laid out EC, what angle is the board/boots supposed to be at? I may be dropping my boots too low
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nils
- Swoard founder
- Posts: 3043
- Joined: Friday 22 March 2002, 19:22
- Location: Lyon, France - Swoard team
- Contact:
Re: So lonely on the US east coast...
Hi!
Narrow trails:
As Rob said, the Swoard is an easy rider: forgiving board that is able to switch from high torsion resistance to easy to fold when you need to.
Going sideways on a narrow trail is easy and you can easily switch from "on edge" to slide the tail and vice versa using the torsion distribution ability the board has.
Contrary to a full titanal board that is very easy to get into sliding at low speeds and gets scary ( I had a scary experience at the ECS on a kessler 175..Even scarier with a plate..) you play with the torsion lifting the tail corner downhill with ease when sliding...and lock it back in place as soon as you want to carve again...its basically a friendly and confidence ride...which is my idea of versatility needed in a carving deck...
Hope you get the chance to test ride one! or get one
Nils
Narrow trails:
As Rob said, the Swoard is an easy rider: forgiving board that is able to switch from high torsion resistance to easy to fold when you need to.
Going sideways on a narrow trail is easy and you can easily switch from "on edge" to slide the tail and vice versa using the torsion distribution ability the board has.
Contrary to a full titanal board that is very easy to get into sliding at low speeds and gets scary ( I had a scary experience at the ECS on a kessler 175..Even scarier with a plate..) you play with the torsion lifting the tail corner downhill with ease when sliding...and lock it back in place as soon as you want to carve again...its basically a friendly and confidence ride...which is my idea of versatility needed in a carving deck...
Hope you get the chance to test ride one! or get one
Nils
Re: So lonely on the US east coast...
Hey
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=26
Cheers
Rob
Great question! I had a similar question that Jacques answered ... hard to believe that the link and answer is from 10 years ago! Check it out, I think this is the information you are aftercorviuscorvax wrote:With the angles I'm running now, I think I may be experiencing boot out on my heel edge, but this could also be due to wrong technique. In an ideal, laid out EC, what angle is the board/boots supposed to be at? I may be dropping my boots too low.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=26
Cheers
Rob