Hardboots off-piste

[raphael]

My little experience seems to be a bit different. or at least what i will say is different. But at the same time, i totally agree with the philosophy of the site (i bought a raceboard, and surf in hardboots)...So... Well, you'll tell me what my post is worth.

I learned with hardboots (i don't think softboots did even exist at that time) on a Hot OneSixty. I immediately fell in love with the feeling it gave me to link turns (it made me forget the fun i had jumping with my skis, i sill don't care about jumps). Well, I didn't have much money so i've been renting for many years. I was only snowboarding one week a year. An of course every time with a different board. So it wasn't easy to get used to a board and to progress. And every year i would try to reproduce the settings that previously worked best for me, but most of times i couldn't.

Then, one year, i tried softboots and it helped me evolve. At first i was totally lost, i felt out of control, my feet and legs couldn't move the board. So it forced me using the gravity center of my whole body to incline the board. It made me enhance my style quickly. Of course i was still closer to the beginner than the expert. But this shift form feet-use to whole-body-use was due to softboots. But the point i want to make here is: with softboots i was still carving. What was better: i was now relying more on my body than on the material. To be efficient i had to make all my body moves to be coherent, to serach harmony, it was teaching.

But, well..., i wasn't that much satisfied with the board, at least it was too short for me. So next year i tried what people now call wierd: a raceboard with softboots (raceboards were not that narrow at the time). i was very much satisfied with that: i was free and it was a good board (can't remember the board, sorry). Sure i hadn't the best control, but this was not what i was seeking: i wanted pleasure and i found it. i wanted a board that could make good drived turns, i had it; and i liked the fact i could no more transmit orders by my legs muscles, but only by moving my gravity center. It was chalenging and i felt free, i like this combination.

Well now i bought a freesurf raceboard, and hardboots. And I try to make extremecarving. It's the new chalenge. But it's not a big change, it's more of another evolution. It's still about gravity center and drived turns.


To summarise: hardboots were securising at the beginning, softboots tought me to search harmony, then hardboots help pushing the limits further.

I feel, but i may be wrong, that the question is not about softboots or hardboots... But i found it hard to explain... From an aesthetic point of view i hate the freestyle and freeride boards, it's not what made me dream when i began surf. Maybe it's more about style. What i want is a board to drive, not a double-nose/tail-board having no direction. When i see an alpine board or a swallowtail board, i feel at home, it looks like something to surf on the snow, maybe to jump, but not to fly like an helicopter (are freestyle boards trying to look like an helicopter blades ?)

well about "Fox"'s post, i agree it's hard to promote alpine surfing by telling people they can't go off-piste... Maybe the swoard with softboots could be a good all montain board. Today swallowtails can be good on-piste, so why can't alpine boards like the swoard be good off-piste... without changing boots (hard or soft).

PS: i'd like something better than softboots, but softer and more adapted to snowboarding than the hardboots are (at least the ones i know).

[NateW]

"why can't alpine boards like the swoard be good off-piste... without changing boots"

I don't know. Why not? I think they already are. The main thing that makes most alpine boards less suitable (not necessarily unsuitable) for off-piste is the height of the nose and tail, but there are 'all mountain' alpine boards to address that.

I skied for years before I got into boarding, and I started boarding in soft boots. I didn't know hard boots existed for snowboards until a year or two later. I always hated soft boots, they just seemed barely-adequate. I think I was one of the lucky few whose ski boots were NOT painful or uncomfortable, so I was always kinda wishing I had hard boots for boarding.

But everyone was riding softboots, other than the racers, and I was far more interested in jumps and bumps than in racing, so I stuck with soft boots thinking it was probably better... 5-6 years later I bought some Raichle 124s and plate bindings and put them on my freeride board and LOVED IT.

A few seasons later I started going to narrower boards, first 23 cm, now 21cm, and later this season probably 17cm. I've gotten into carving, but I still plan my runs from jump to jump, and carve in between. I just feel like I have more control in hard boots, even for moguls and off-piste and other not-usually-hard-booted stuff. There's no way I'm going back to soft boots.

The one place where soft boots really feel superior to me is for tweaking airs. I'm basically limited to methods and tail grabs. But I can do them higher and further in hard boots, because I have more control and thus more confidence, so I'm sticking with hard boots for the whole mountain, every time.

[JonDahl]

but foot pain was always an issue for me. When I first put ski boots on a freeride board I thought I found a little piece of foot comfort heaven. It was tough to ride at first 'cause ski boots are not ideal for riding. I now use Raichle's for everything including backcountry. Ive just modified a pair of 123's, cut down cuffs, Vibram on the toe piece, Fast step in heels, and thermo liners w/footbeds. I put the toe/heel pieces of a set of Snowpro's onto the Voile slider tracks for my split. I think if we promote hardboots as the BEST option for all riding we may be able to change the perception, but it takes time and effort to make any change in perception.

[István]

Guys,

I took the time and went through this old and long thread.

Looking back to when it started (2002) and looking around on the slopes today, not much has changed. Frankly, there are even more soft-booters...

When I go down the slopes carving in Austria, Italy, France, wherever, I see curious pairs of eyes staring at me like if I was an extinct species. What's more, I usually see angry faces thinking: this is the bastard going from edge-to-edge, even carving uphill, these hazardous characters should be banned from here!

Let's face it, this is the reality.

On the other hand - I'm asking you, my fellow hardbooters - WHO THE HACK CARES??

I just love to be different and I laugh my ass off when hearing softbooters say:
- I can do same turns
- I'm faster
- I'm a freestyler (in reality all they do is tail-skidding....)
- It is much more comfy to walk in SB-s (who cares)
- Freestylers are coool...

I think all of you heard these before But again, isn't it beautiful being uniqe and enjoying this fantastic sport just for itself? Is it really important to convince others? I do not think so....


Cheers and enjoy the last day of Xmas and hopefully see most of you in Zinal.


Istvan

[SITO]

Simply I am totally agree you!!

All that you say is the argument of freestyler , and they look us how something of the past.

But the reallity is different, the 90% of freestyler, can't do the tricks shown on the comercial films, so only what I can see on the slopes from the lifts is too much soft booters skiding with his tail on the slopes most of them riden in counter rotation.

But see from the lift some guys how you ,riden edge-to edge on his hard boots-stick is really preety nice like a coreography between turn to the next turn, only writen a fine line like a pencil on the snow, and with our nose touching the snow. So is for this why the people look us!


Sito

Sito

[István]

Sito,

Indeed, that is the point: 99% of softbooters do not go to the funpark or off-piste! The more worrying part is that there softbooters who ride really well, seemingly all they need is an alpine board


Kindest,

István

[sinkhole]

I have a question... can't hardboots be beneficial at freeride angles? I ask because when I took my first lesson in 1994, the rental place didn't have softboots my size or something so they gave me hardboots, and an alpine board, but with strap bindings (I think everyone at the lesson was riding an alpine board with soft boots) and the angles certainly weren't extreme (although I never knew what they were exactly, they were regular freeride angles I think). Weren't there a lot more alpine boards in the 90's? Maybe there is a perception that HB's can only be used at extreme angles.

[JonDahl]

I use my Raichle SB123's on my split setup at 40F/25R and it feels just fine, thank you. I can see no reason to use soft boots off piste, hardboots are more comfortable, the first reason I switched to them. Hardboots are also automatic crampon compatible, which is an added bonus. Hardboots kick steps better, give better edge control on steps, I could go on, but you get the point.