Meaning Of Springs

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Meaning Of Springs

Postby Whitey » Sunday 13 June 2004, 12:26

Hello EC’ers,

after snowboarding many years with softboots, I started hardboot carving at the beginning of last season. The start was relatively easy after receiving good hints and tips from ojankaivajat.org. However, ever since there has been something I don't quite understand, and I would like to solve it out.

Some of the boots are equipped with a spring system, and some are not. To me it seems that race oriented boots comes with springs, and more carving oriented boots comes with forward lean locks. Still, as reading interesting discussions over here, quite many carvers have changed the locks to the springs. What is even more notably, quite many have also done spring system mods to satisfy own matter of taste, typically to change stiff springs to softer ones.

So, I'd like to figure out the idea behind the springs. What is the original purpose of the springs and what are the real benefits of using them? Do they act as a sort of extra calve muscles, or are they used just to get more boot tuning possibilities? Or do they have something to do with suspension? What is more, I'm also wondering why some original springs (e.g Deeluxe Indy) are so hard and due to that the actual compression is really short. To me they seem and feel to be almost unusable 8O

Maybe some of you find these questions self-evident, but let me hear your comments and opinions about this interesting matter.
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Boots for racers

Postby vkrouverk » Monday 14 June 2004, 16:48

Original springed boots are intended for racers and therefore they are so stiff. Racing ain't freecarving and therefore requirements are different:
    racers have strong legs, e.g. in bomberonline someone said, that Canadian racing team members can hold in sitting position (back against wall) 10 minutes, I can do 3 on sunny day :oops: Strong legs need/can stand stiffer boots.
    Racers do not finish turns, i.e. they spend considerably less time on turn. Freecarvers make quite often >180 degree turns, racers never. It is more easier to hold turn short time that long time. If you look at slalom racers then they literally hop from one turn to other and use body up-down movement to transfer power to turns and boot bending. But if you have to hold turn longer, then such technique does not work, you just have to go with flexier boots or you will not be able to bend your legs.

As I understand it, springs are intended for defining flex pattern (and suspension to lesser degree): with usual lock mechanism you boot shell and tongue define flex, but movement will be quite limited (and additionally it depends from buckling and temperature: on cold days boots are like concrete :). Personally I managed to ride with locked boots, using racing-like style (short aggressive unfinished turns), but when I tried swiss style with more longer turns, then I was unable to bend boots sufficiently enough during whole turn. So I rode boots unlocked, but this created other problems: regardless how hard I buckled my boots, boot support (and reaction time) was too weak on steeper or icy sections. Spring mechanism is free of those problems.

OK, time is up, football begins, have to end ;)
HTH,
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Postby Whitey » Thursday 17 June 2004, 17:10

OK, thanks Vahur for your detailed explanation! I'm pretty sure that now I understand the underlying idea. Even if it was a bit lost, I already installed a pair of modified RABs on my boots. Take a look over here.
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Installing RAB upsidedown

Postby Hans » Thursday 17 June 2004, 20:34

Hi, Whitey

I see this RAB of yours is working surprisingly good as well. I see that you installed the RAB upsidedown!!! Great idea!! :idea: :idea:

Greets, Hans.
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Postby Whitey » Saturday 19 June 2004, 5:14

Hello Hans,

yes, it works better than I was expecting. It was just a wild try to install it upsidedown but I'dont think that I'm going to install it back to the normal position anymore. Actually, I just started to modify it because I simply didn't have anything else to do during these days.

For sure this installation needs to be tested properly on the real environment, not only on my livingroom floor. And most probably I will do some small improvements on it: cut all the unnecessary threads away from the bolts, maybe try a bit stiffer springs etc. But so far it looks quite promising :wink:
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Postby drcr » Saturday 18 December 2004, 21:19

Nice setup Whitey!

I just got a pair of Indys in, my first hardboots. Like you, I am also a softy convert. I found the unmodded Indys to be rock hard in their “stock” configuration as expected. I was getting ready to mod them as per the numerous forum threads here at EC, but I noticed my boots didn’t “pivot" well, not well at all. I tried the boots on with the RAB completely removed and they still didn’t pivot well. Perhaps the boots are inherently too stiff for me, even with no spring. 8O Or perhaps I'm just looking for are greater range of movement than the other modded Indy users.

After seeing you settup, I'm thinking about get a pair of SB413s (Lemans would work just the same, correct?) and modding them as you did.

Where did you get the "RAB" you used? It's a little different than the ones on the Indys. Or are they the same and you just modded them a little?

Thanks,
DrCR

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Postby Whitey » Sunday 19 December 2004, 10:45

Hello drcr,

please, read through this thread -> http://www.extremecarving.com/forum/vie ... highlight= . It gives you a good understanding about this matter. And surely you can also order it from the BOL, http://www.bomberonline.com/Store/boots/parts_RAB.cfm . Or are they still out of it?

My RAB is exactly the same than the one on the BOL picture. Comparing it to the original Indy RAB, the only difference is color. I modded my RAB quite much, took of unnecessary parts, sawed and filed from here and there. Also a milling cutter was used to remove bolt threads. Actually, it was not a very good deal to buy this sort of expensive spare part and then strip away many parts of it and just to use it as a template. In that sense it would be a better idea to manufacture the whole thing by yourself.

Raichle SB 413 is supposed to be a price-conscious level boot, and it is a bit more flexible than Deeluxe Lemans (earlier SB 423). However, in practice the difference is not big at all (I tried both of them). In my opinion, it is a good boot because of nice flex and right price. Surely someone might like more stiffer shell but I like this sort of flexy boot. It lets you bend you knees properly and still supports you ankles. Unfortunately I don’t have any personal Indy experience, so I don’t know how much/well they are supposed to pivot.

In case you are interested in spring mods, go to Finnish carving site, http://www.ojankaivajat.org/ . In there you can find pictures of a whole punch of nice home-made spring systems. :bravo:
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Postby pokkis » Sunday 19 December 2004, 11:51

Direct link to our pictures section:
http://pictures.ojankaivajat.org/
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Postby drcr » Sunday 19 December 2004, 21:37

Thanks for the link to the "Where to buy a RAB for Raichle/Deeluxe in Europe?" thread. I have about 10 links bookmarked with regard to spring modding from here at EC but that wasn't one of them. Thanks!

Thanks also for the ojankaivajat.org link. Very inspirational. :D
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