ThermoFlex question

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ThermoFlex question

Postby saso » Tuesday 28 October 2003, 12:00

HI!

I think this kind of question has allready been posted on this forum but I can not find it.
I have Raichle AF 700. I bought them last year since I've been having problems with my feet for several years now. Or should I say ever since I started snowboarding. The problem is that my feet are too narrow and my boots aren't holding them right. Last year I bought AF boots because I've heard that these boots have something special on their liners to hold down the heel. But it didn't help me. So I tried if with ThermoFLex liner which I bought two years ago. I have black Thefmoflex liners. When I heated and molded them in my AF boots the situation got worse. My foot was swimming in my boot. Maybe the problem is that liners are size to small for my boots. And there is no size written on those liners. But anyway, to my question.
I've heard that there are two types of ThermoFlex liners. Black, which are for all types of boots and grey, which are supposed to be made specifically for AF series. Does anybody know if that is true?
What is your experience with those lliners?
Are they really that good?
What size should I buy? My boots are 28.5.

Thanks

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Custom liners

Postby nils » Tuesday 28 October 2003, 12:58

In case of narrow feet, you might need to get either injected liners, or cork filled liners. http://www.sidas.com you will find the list of their dealers for injection process which is really a good solution. Choose the mid performance liner for the other one is usually very stiff and used by people like hermann meier....
Injected liners will mold your feet so much you will need to unlock the boot after each ride, but it is sooo precise!! I had them and really liked it!

Make the injection with a rather thick sock, so your feet has a little room to play with ( hermann injects with paper thin sock) when u ride later with thinner sock.

Thermo will not be good enough for your feet are too narrow and they won't create material to tight them (well that 's my opinion)

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Glue pads to outside of liner...

Postby kjl » Tuesday 28 October 2003, 18:32

You can get some various shapes of boot-fitting pads from here: http://www.tognar.com/boot.html and stick them to the outside of the liners before you bake them in the oven. In fact, they have one called "Narrowing Pads" which supposedly are made just for situations like yours. That way you can still use the thermoflex liners, which really are super, super comfortable, as they mold themselves exactly to the shape of your foot. In fact, the first time I baked my thermoflex, I accidentally got a big fat fold in the liner right over the middle of my foot and I didn't notice it for months until I felt the inside of the liner with my hands (testing for moisture), because even with the fold it was still the right shape for my foot.
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Postby NateW » Wednesday 29 October 2003, 6:47

I've had TF liners in black and grey and there isn't much difference. I'm sure they'd both fit either boot because they stretch and mold so much during the heating and fitting process.

However they come in two thicknesses, 9mm and 14mm or something like that, and with your situation it might be helpful to use the thicker liners. If you buy liners, ask about that.

How does the boot fit your foot length-wise? It might be helpful to go down a size. Expensive, but if you need it, it's worth it. I went from 28 to 27 and it was such an improvement that now I'm thinking I should go down to 26.
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Boot too big?

Postby vkrouverk » Wednesday 29 October 2003, 7:57

Perhaps your boot is just too big? How long is your foot (in cm)? The boot size should accord to foot length. I didn't knew that and ordered boots according to my usual footwear size, which was way too big and I had big problems with my boots, feet swimmed inside and I got my skin scrubbed off from bones :( But after I got thermoflex liners molded properly at shop, this problem was relieved. If I buy next boots, then they will be size or two smaller.
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Postby Hans » Wednesday 29 October 2003, 14:09

I think it's a mondo kind of problem, not the size of your feet. Said before in this thread. When you buy and fit snowboardhard- or softboots, you must have the feeling that the boot is too small when you are standing rightup in your boots. Your toes must touch the front of your boot a little bit. (Another tip: when you are buying boots, take your own socks with you, the ones you are going to wear when you are snowboarding!)
Then you must give some pressure on your shins, hanging forward into your boots, like you have the idea that you are going to fall forward. Then your feet go backwards in your boots and you must feel some free space with your toes.

Another solution is to let make some custommade footbeds. Not the ones you can buy in a ski- or snowboardshop (sorry if I offend some one), these are real rubbish to me. But the ones you can let made with a professional arch support shop. I let them make as well, cost me about euro 75,-- (usdollar 80,--). They made a computerized 3-D print of my feet, and make a custummade footbed, (my forfoot is flat, that's the most seen feetproblem in general). Take about a week or so to make a quality footbed. As a result of this footbed, because they are thicker then the common footbeds delivered with the (hard)boots, your feet will raise a little bit. So the buckles can be less tighter.

Riding/wearing hardboots is not because you like your boots (the most I like about my hardboots is to take them off at the end of a good carvingday), but like carving. I never heard a guy saying that he liked the fit of his hardboots.

Cheers, Hans.

By the way, I wear the 700's as well for four years now with normal liners and custommade footbeds.
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thermos!

Postby kjl » Thursday 30 October 2003, 1:43

Hans wrote:Riding/wearing hardboots is not because you like your boots (the most I like about my hardboots is to take them off at the end of a good carvingday), but like carving. I never heard a guy saying that he liked the fit of his hardboots.

Cheers, Hans.

By the way, I wear the 700's as well for four years now with normal liners and custommade footbeds.


Maybe you should try thermoflex liners, then! I love the fit of my hardboots. They are so much more comfortable than any softboot I have ever worn, and I was very picky about trying on every brand and model of softboot and choosing the most comfortable one. The hardboot is tight, snug, and has no pressure points. Sometimes my smallest toes get a little crunched, but that's because I didn't put a thick enough toecap on when I baked the liners...
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Postby NateW » Thursday 30 October 2003, 8:18

That's kind of funny. The main reason I got into hard boots was all the pain my feet had when I was riding soft boots. I hated those things. With footbeds, TF liners, and some fitting foam, my boots are far more comfortable than any soft boots I ever had. Without all the extra work, they were about the same comfort level (but still had way more control - which is the other great thing about hard boots of course!).
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Fitting foam??

Postby skywalker » Thursday 30 October 2003, 10:34

Hi NateW,

what is the
and some fitting foam
You mention? And where do I get some? I'm asking, because my UPS Mach2 Boots do fit quite well but are little to far in some areas... Thanks!
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Postby Hans » Thursday 30 October 2003, 19:47

Okay, guys
There are some who liked the fit of their hardboots, well I don't.
My softboots, Vans Fargo Boa and an older boot of Flow, I really like them a lot more.

So, you convinced me all to look for a solution or to look for some expensive Thermoliners (€ 130,-- with blue-tomato) or another solution.
Are Thermoliners a real better solution than the standard liners?

I have some pressurepoints in my AF 700. The most pressurepoints I have is the area with my little toes. Or is it a solution to take away some of the inside material of the standardliners? Any recommendations on this?
Will Thermoliners take away this problem?

Greetings, Hans.
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Postby kjl » Thursday 30 October 2003, 20:19

Hans wrote:I have some pressurepoints in my AF 700. The most pressurepoints I have is the area with my little toes. Or is it a solution to take away some of the inside material of the standardliners? Any recommendations on this?
Will Thermoliners take away this problem?


Hi, Hans. Yeah, the liners mold themselves to whatever shape you stick into them when you mold them, so if you want to relieve pressure in certain places, you can pad that part of your foot out when you heat mold the liners.. I believe thermoflex liners come with a neoprene "toecap", which is just a layer of thickness that you put around your toes before you mold the liners. Mine didn't come with the toecap, so I cut the toe end off of a thick wool sock and put that over my toes, and then further "expanded" the size of my toes with wadded up tissue paper placed between the toes, put a thin sock over everything, and molded the liners with the whole contraption (foot + tissue paper + toecap + thin sock).

So now I have a very snug fit around my entire foot, except I have a little empty cavern surrounding my toes, which is very comfortable, and very firm.

When you get your liners you can follow the instructions at http://www.alpinecarving.com/#Boots (scroll down to "Heat Molding Raichle ThermoFlex liners" a few pages down)...
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Postby Hans » Thursday 30 October 2003, 20:36

Ken,
Thanks a lot. I first go to check out if it helps to stretch the outside of the bootmaterial. My shop has a possibility to do this. Secondly to take away some material out of the standardliners. And if that doesn't work, I go for the Thermo's with blue-tomato.

Thanks for the reply, greetings, Hans.
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