Board length for lightweight rider (and technique question)

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Board length for lightweight rider (and technique question)

Postby christian61 » Saturday 3 November 2007, 7:50

Hello everybody,

I changed from softboots to hardboots last winter and I am unsure as to whether the board I bought is too long / too hard for me.

I weigh 58 kg and I'm 1.72 m.
I got myself a Generics Peak 156 (my freeride board for softboots was 152 cm long and much softer than the Generics Peak).
I rode the board about six days and was surprised at about how difficult it is to do tight turns with it.

Is it possible that I'm not heavy enough to bend / flex the board sufficiently?

It would be nice if you could have a look at this short video and give me some advice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN-vbPTM438

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hello

Postby nils » Saturday 3 November 2007, 10:12

Christian:
You need more technique obviously and it takes time unfortunately.. I'd recommend following the rotation / push-pull technique we explain on the extremecarving.com website because its not too hard to understand and is efficient.
I dont know that board specifically and it seems ok to learn: you need to use your legs more ( they look the same on the videos : no bend, no push etc...) .Push-pull technique will help you: bend between turns when you change edges, and push in the turns. Don't forget to go uphill a bit after edge change to control your speed and start the turn ( its visible in all our videos) it will help you a lot!.. then push gradually and bend again at the end of the turn to recover and change edge again.

Welcome :)
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Postby trp7 » Saturday 3 November 2007, 10:16

don't worry, is natural you feel an alpine board stiffer than a soft board... it's hard!
no matter with your board
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Postby hera » Saturday 3 November 2007, 10:27

Hi Christian,

Waching you movie it seems to me that you still use the body rotation specific to freeriding and powder floating. There for in first part of the video you doesn't shift edges, you just simply slide on the edge. That's not a bad thing but isn't carving. Your edge must cut the snow into an arch but that's all about tehnique. Improving push0pull will help you a lot especialy in quick changes. Here are some basic information that might help you http://www.extremecarving.com/tech/tech.html, thx to EC guys :wink: .
Regarding the board, I've found your feb post and I do not read in german but I figured out that SCR is 9 m, wich is ok. I don't know the stiffness of your board but the lenght and the radius seems to be ok for your h/w. Some manufacturers gives general info for each board regarding h/w of the rider. But some few produce different siffness for each board.


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Re: hello

Postby trp7 » Saturday 3 November 2007, 10:37

nils wrote:Christian:
You need more technique obviously and it takes time unfortunately.. I'd recommend following the rotation / push-pull technique we explain on the extremecarving.com website because its not too hard to understand and is efficient.
I dont know that board specifically and it seems ok to learn: you need to use your legs more ( they look the same on the videos : no bend, no push etc...) .Push-pull technique will help you: bend between turns when you change edges, and push in the turns. Don't forget to go uphill a bit after edge change to control your speed and start the turn ( its visible in all our videos) it will help you a lot!.. then push gradually and bend again at the end of the turn to recover and change edge again.

Welcome :)

you always try to "indoctrinating" new people! :lol:

isn't more easy to bend your legs into the turns and stand up in the transition?
just my opinion, but i consider "normal" technique more efficient for a "normal" ride.
isn't EC technique a specialization into a specialized world as is the alpine world?
nils, not to provoke, but only for exchange our opinions :bravo:
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No doctrines. Extensions, push-pull, ... all is good.

Postby fivat » Saturday 3 November 2007, 11:47

trp7 wrote:isn't more easy to bend your legs into the turns and stand up in the transition?

You are referring to what we call "extension turns". Yes, it's the easiest turn and it's particularly efficient on well groomed slopes with good visibility. I use it myself in some situations. When people are used only to it, year after year, it's then very hard to learn another technique. So it's important to try learning different techniques as early as possible.

Push-pull is NOT only a technique for extremecarving. It's a way of riding, even for "normal" turns, that presents many advantages: :bravo:
  • it gives fluidity and a style that is appreciated by many riders Image
  • it works well in the moguls or on the not flat slopes (because absorbing the bumps is crucial; the rhythm of bending the legs on the bumps and pushing behind the bumps is the same as the push-pull rhythm)
  • in bad visibility, your are less vulnerable and can react better if you are surprised by a bump for example
  • it works very well in deep fresh snow (it's impossible to make extensions to initiate the turns in deep powder, except at high speed).
This subject is interesting and has been discussed a lot a few years ago. For example:

For many years, I'm teaching snowboarding a few days every season in a Club. With my students I decided to teach them immediately the push-pull technique, and not the extension turns. I got impressive results. Jacques himself has taught his wife snowboarding directly with this technique. Extension is natural and comes then by itself. But not the push-pull technique. Again: extension technique is good in many situations. But using only this technique makes then hard learning other techniques. 8)

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Re: Board length for lightweight rider

Postby RicHard » Saturday 3 November 2007, 11:51

christian61 wrote:Hello everybody,

Hello! Welcome.
I read your message and other comments before watching the video.
As far as I see, it's not true that you SLIDE: you are carving, even if just following the edge without pushing it to do what you want. That's the problem: you are victum of the board but... you are not at a bad point.
The biggest problem (concerning the most common technique) is that you don't put any pressure/unpressure on the board.
Try to stand up when you change the edge and gradually flex your knees during the turn. Calculate the timing in order to make the flexing phase lasts as the extending phase. You start the flexion on the edge changing and end the the extension on the next edge changing.
This let you pout more pressure on the board making it bend more turning tighter.
Be sure that your board is good.
;)
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Postby hera » Saturday 3 November 2007, 12:04

I don't agree with you TRP 7. Nils simply gave an advice about carving tehnique. Push-pull is very usefull for carving in general and it's compulsory on crowded slopes. He didn't tried to convice Christian to buy a Swoard and get laid down with it. Anyway, I found this forum extremly helpfull for alpine comunity even if sometimes promote a particular tehnique.

RicHard... yes, at the end of the video Christian do carving turns ... but at the begining he was just sliding without using his body properly...

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Postby RicHard » Saturday 3 November 2007, 12:27

hera wrote:RicHard... yes, at the end of the video Christian do carving turns ... but at the begining he was just sliding without using his body properly...

Sorry, Hera... I still disagree...
Even in the first part of video, as far as I see, he is on the edge, without spraying much snow, following the right path that the edge can follow.
He's standing still (with bent waist... soooo ugly...) but he's following the edge.
Just my opinion...
:)
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Postby trp7 » Saturday 3 November 2007, 12:30

hera wrote:He didn't tried to convice Christian to buy a Swoard and get laid down with it. Anyway, I found this forum extremly helpfull for alpine comunity even if sometimes promote a particular tehnique.

no hera, never said! this thought is far away from my mind!
i know that the swoard team intent is to promote this sport, and not use underhand methods to sell their products!
and yes i'm agree when you say that this forum (and internet in general too) is extremly helpful for alpine community
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Re: No doctrines. Extensions, push-pull, ... all is good.

Postby trp7 » Saturday 3 November 2007, 12:50

fivat wrote:
trp7 wrote:isn't more easy to bend your legs into the turns and stand up in the transition?

You are referring to what we call "extension turns". Yes, it's the easiest turn and it's particularly efficient on well groomed slopes with good visibility. I use it myself in some situations. When people are used only to it, year after year, it's then very hard to learn another technique. So it's important to try learning different techniques as early as possible.

Push-pull is NOT only a technique for extremecarving. It's a way of riding, even for "normal" turns, that presents many advantages: :bravo:
  • it gives fluidity and a style that is appreciated by many riders Image
  • it works well in the moguls or on the not flat slopes (because absorbing the bumps is crucial; the rhythm of bending the legs on the bumps and pushing behind the bumps is the same as the push-pull rhythm)
  • in bad visibility, your are less vulnerable and can react better if you are surprised by a bump for example
  • it works very well in deep fresh snow (it's impossible to make extensions to initiate the turns in deep powder, except at high speed).
This subject is interesting and has been discussed a lot a few years ago. For example:
For many years, I'm teaching snowboarding a few days every season in a Club. With my students I decided to teach them immediately the push-pull technique, and not the extension turns. I got impressive results. Jacques himself has taught his wife snowboarding directly with this technique. Extension is natural and comes then by itself. But not the push-pull technique. Again: extension technique is good in many situations. But using only this technique makes then hard learning other techniques. 8)

ok i'm agree. but i find that most of the points of force of push-pull technique may be found also in "extension" teccnique.
probably push-pull is better for teaching to a beginner, instead of a technique where legs are bent with early leg fatigue, but i think that an extension applied to an advanced technique as the "french style", with the body always over, give you a lot of board control, feeling with board and ground, and responsiveness, more than could do a "swiss style".

note, i'm not promoting a technique over another, i only focusing on advantages/disavantages of the 2 tech. in a riding that is not "laid linked turns", where push-pull is the best
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Postby hera » Saturday 3 November 2007, 13:32

Richard, I watched the video again and maybe you are right ... he is on the edge most of the time :) . For the fist time I thought that the front side turn is sliding. Anyway push-pull will help him with or without full extension.

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Postby RicHard » Saturday 3 November 2007, 13:37

hera wrote:Richard, I watched the video again and maybe you are right ... he is on the edge most of the time :)

No problem: the video is not so "high-definited"! :)

hera wrote:Anyway push-pull will help him with or without full extension.

Yes... and extension will help him with or without push-pull...
;)
Two techniques, both important. In such a perfect situation (good snow, good steepness), they are intechangeable: bot are effective!
:)
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Re: No doctrines. Extensions, push-pull, ... all is good.

Postby fivat » Saturday 3 November 2007, 13:43

trp7 wrote:ok i'm agree. but i find that most of the points of force of push-pull technique may be found also in "extension" teccnique.
probably push-pull is better for teaching to a beginner, instead of a technique where legs are bent with early leg fatigue, but i think that an extension applied to an advanced technique as the "french style", with the body always over, give you a lot of board control, feeling with board and ground, and responsiveness, more than could do a "swiss style".

note, i'm not promoting a technique over another, i only focusing on advantages/disavantages of the 2 tech. in a riding that is not "laid linked turns", where push-pull is the best

Nobody is promoting a technique or another. :D All depends on what you want to do. I say that one should not focus on one technique all the time but use different techniques!

I'm often surprised about that fact that people are thinking that Jacques and I are laying down the turns all the days 8O (maybe because of the videos whose objective is to show something new/different). But we do many other things: different type of turns and techniques, racing (especially Jacques who loves this), moguls and freeriding with soft boots.

It's interesting to see that even at racing, champions like the Schoch brothers are using the push-pull technique at some moments. They don't use only extension turns. The energy doesn't come only from the technique itself but from the rider too ;-) It's even funny to see now wider boards at racing ;-) Finally!

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Postby hera » Saturday 3 November 2007, 13:45

K trp7, maybe I got you wrong.

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