Swoard and extremecarving - Disclaimer

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Swoard and extremecarving - Disclaimer

Postby nils » Monday 24 April 2006, 21:37

More and more people are turning to extremecarving and have fun doing it, so our goal is reached slowly and it's a great excitement for us!
Thank you!
More and more people practicing such a powerful and "extreme" activity means more troubles to face:

As some of you might have noticed, the Extremecarver model (as well as the DUAL) is quite a performance board. It is even grippier than the previous generations. This is excellent for extremecarving, but has proven also this season to cause a few accidents, causing injuries on the riders, as well as, in some cases, breakage of the boards. This was not the case with the first generation because the board was a bit less grippy in the nose, and also because the rider's level has improved much, taking them into more extreme riding! We have never seen so many people riding so low and carving EC style!

We want to tell you here again the following statement:

Extremecarving is a dangerous activity: it takes the board and the rider to the extreme capacity of physical laws: it means there is no room for mistakes and also no forgiveness in case something goes wrong, shall it be in the technique used by the rider, or on the slope surface (stones, holes, bumps, ice...). The boards are taken to the limit of strength in extremecarving turns, and when something goes wrong the fiberglass sandwich is not always able to resist the overload resulting in breakage.

It means we are asking everyone to:

- Do extremecarving turns only when you are good enough technically to do it: it means also you are good enough to absorb (with legs) the unknown (holes, ice balls, etc.) and not let the board absorb shocks it is not designed for.
- Do EC turns only when the snow is good for it (or take risks of injuries): stay on good snow, and avoid pure ice, melted zones or heavy snows for they put you at risk. Watch out the irregularities and the bumps that can be dangerous for the shoulders: simply do less inclined turns.
- Do EC turns by good visibility, on the slopes that are not too crowded.

We are guaranteeing only the board against craftsmanship and material defect: not against breakage due to snowboarding accident. It means we will not warranty boards that have been damaged because the nose got stuck into a turn making it stick into a hole and all similar cases. Any board will break when put on stress over its physical limits, so it's a matter of taking great care instead of blaming things! We are of course taking care of other warranty issues (cosmetic, small delams etc.) in case they happen.

After the feedback of this season here is what we suggest:
- Take a personal insurance.
- Adapt your EC technique to the conditions of your ride and to your level (we never break or damage boards, why should you!)
- Try to avoid heavy spring snow: extremecarving tends to dig deep, and the nose can easily get stuck in the snow. EC is better practiced on hard or cold snow: spring snow requires a more versatile board with more forgiveness!

Again, thank you for this thrilling season :)

The Swoard team
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Postby x-eff » Monday 24 April 2006, 23:04

Give us statistics, please !!
Dré dans l'pentu !!
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no stats

Postby nils » Tuesday 25 April 2006, 7:36

not really big numbers to tell ( nothing to be scared about hehe)... a few broken boards, all in the same area, and all because bumps or holes were hit..., usually in soft snow, or when the bumps( read: high enough to stop the nose) were too big.

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Have you improved this season?

Postby harald » Tuesday 25 April 2006, 8:10

Hi,
This was a lot a warnings :naughty: Let me put it another way. Have you (the users of 3D and 2D) improved your general carving and specific EC abilities since you got your Swoard :?: Observing the ones that bought Swoard this season here in Oslo everybody has improved substantially with the Swoard. Even at the age of over 60 (a couple of us) we do the laid heel and front turns on pretty steep slopes. We have used Swoard in almost any kind of snow conditions, hard and icy snow, hard pack, hero snow, slushy spring snow and even off-piste in not too deep powder. Swoard works excellent. But as Nils said, it is important to adjust the riding style to the conditions and not lay down when it is too soft or lumpy :naughty: However, it is not breaking the board that we are afraid of but hurting arms, wrists, fingers, or shoulders. Hope, for the sport, that Swoard sales and other EC boards will increase next year. People really stop looking and want to try when they see us performing nice, deep turns on the slope.
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yes!

Postby nils » Tuesday 25 April 2006, 8:49

Always listen to the senior's advice! wise men always know when to release the throttle and pull back! ( same in surfing, climbing etc...).

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Carve or not to carve

Postby Hans » Tuesday 25 April 2006, 8:52

Nils and Harald are definately right. But it's a warning in general, not only specific for the Swoard. Never try to (extreme)carve on bumpy slopes or (wet, soft) slush: that's asking for trouble with any board. Here is even a broken Burton UP which lasted for years, but died :cry:
(I love the old UP/FP) by taking bumps and uneven terrain. Story can be read here:
http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?t=11153
So be careful with yourselves and with your equipment.

Greets, Hans.
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Postby frunobulax » Tuesday 25 April 2006, 9:10

I'd guess what you are talking about is front flips: too much weight on the front on grippy terrain, folding the nose and there you go....
I'd say anyone who can do EC has already experienced this, no matter which board he rides. Normally riders who can do EC are very advanced riders, people who know what they are doing. So I marvel why you find it necessary to give this official warning, if not...
Front flips tend to happen on boards with a rather soft nose. I don't say the board is responsible for this, and I do think any board could break under this kind of pressure, but IF the swoard has problems with front flips and with breaking "in the same area" you SHOULD be honest about it and/or do something about the construction.
You cannot tell people: "You've bought the best board on the market for some 700 Euros, so now be careful with it and only ride it in perfect conditions!"
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yes but

Postby nils » Tuesday 25 April 2006, 11:27

yes but there is nothing construction will do for that for the following reasons:

- materials will break, no matter how many layers of fiberglass or carbon you use: its just physics.
- The board is designed with a softer flex, this makes it so good for extremecarving. If we just increase stiffness: its going to be unridable, like are so many race boards that only guys above 85 kilos can ride.

The board we make does not have problems with front flips, but we just say that frontflips is not snowboarding, and the board is not designed for it. It is just the result of a bad riding, always by the fault of the rider.
Like a race car, its usually the driver fault when he puts the car's physics in danger: We are just telling everyone that ( and not everyone is an advanced rider believe me) its necessary to adapt style of riding to the snow conditions ( no EC when it is dangerous to do so). We have had this season a few cases of injuries ( patrice's shoulder, foué etc..) because of EC'ing, so be careful... Its better to carve normally when the timing, weather, snow, fitness is not right! Respecting this basic warning will increase board's life, and rider's life expectancy ( or medical bills) !
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Postby x-eff » Tuesday 25 April 2006, 15:34

What happened to Patrice ?

And Foué ? I've read some posts about the nice blue color of his... hum... bottom, but what was the cause ?
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Postby frunobulax » Tuesday 25 April 2006, 15:53

I didn't want to be too offensive about this. I agree with you in most of the things you say. And furthermore I don't owe a SWOARD myself (I would probably if there was a 185H since I am one of these guys above 85 kg... :oops: and above 190 cm), so I don't really have the right to talk about its qualities.
But I think this is a disease which comes from the American law and absurd jurisdiction concerning operating instructions. Everybody finds it now necessary to sound warnings like: "This snowboard may throw off the rider and cause serious injury or death..." as if the normal snowboarder wasn't able to figure this out by himself.
Snowboarding IS dangerous, and snowboards CAN break under certain circumstances. Every snowboarder should know this already. There is no further advice necessary.
On the other hand, if the Swoard tends to break more often than other boards, this should be an indication for you to change something about it, not for the owner to ride it more careful than he would ride another board. Or you should at least offer an insurance which covers board breakage no matter under which circumstances.

addition: I concede that you're right in some way, my Virus is by far the stiffest board I've ever ridden, and I had more front flips this year than ever before, just because my riding improved and changed towards the EC style...
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well

Postby nils » Tuesday 25 April 2006, 17:12

frunobulax wrote:On the other hand, if the Swoard tends to break more often than other boards, this should be an indication for you to change something about it

Well as stated previously: they do not break more than any other board taken to the same kind of riding with that much riders doing it: meaning no other boards has ever been produced with EC in mind, and with so much riders on them, so a few boards broke, and more will brake in each company that starts making EC boards.

As you also say: you are doing more frontflips doing EC than before: the discipline makes the boards do frontflips, and those are not usually because of the board's fault, but because the terrain wasn't good for the turn, or the rider's technique's was wron: the way our board is designed does not allow for forgiveness> the nose stays gripped whatever happens, explaining why it can be dangerous.

If we were designing race cars, would we have to stop making them so fast because people get more injured driving them faster that they used to do before? No, and this is why we think its time to tell people that they need to be carefull: a special driving license is not needed of course, but caution is required!

As for insurance, its unmanagable to sell insurance to people worldwide, its up to each one to do what he thinks is best: our swiss demo center in geneva offers optionnal insurance when he sells any board in the shop, so people can get a full refund in case they have an accident. If you feel you are going to be a bit rough and push the limits even when the conditions are not there: we advise you to take insurance...

Last thing: the problem is that a lot of people don't figure that sports are dangerous, and can lead to accidents. EC as shown here and in our video looks fun ,easy and danger free: this is why we felt its necessary to tell everyone to be cautious. In switzerland we know there is way less risks to have a lawsuit in case people have accidents using your sports article ( unless its proven the article caused the accident).

Be cautious and have fun...Very few people brake boards doing EC, Very few get injured too doing it: its a fun activity that needs you to use brains sometimes to keep it fun :)
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Postby eaglefly » Wednesday 26 April 2006, 13:39

:?: frontflips ...in french? :oops:
* * * "Carve diem, that's it " * * *
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Postby actionreplay » Tuesday 2 May 2006, 10:32

In french, I guess it means literally : "saut perilleux avant".
En fait, je suppose qu'ici cela signifie que l'avant de la planche se bloque dans la neige (prise de carre trop sur l'avant, ou trop prononcee dans une neige molle), et que tu partes en vrille à l'avant...
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Broken Swoard

Postby Braun » Thursday 4 May 2006, 10:55

Friend of mine has broken swoard 2D after few days of ridding. Sure it was on spring but perfectly groomed snow. Hope that "2007" model of Swoard will be a bit more durable.
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yes

Postby nils » Thursday 4 May 2006, 13:01

As stated, its unfortunately not the numbers of days that caused the breakage, but nose digging / front falls. The fact that its groomed changes nothing: do not practice EC on soft heavy snow is all repeat!. EC is only good on hard snows, or lightsoft snow with hard bottom. The heavier the snow, the more risks we have to get injured and break boards, and this can happen with a board that you ride 2 minutes only, as well as a board that is 5 years old..

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