About edges

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About edges

Postby SITO » Tuesday 4 January 2005, 12:56

Hi all.
1-Some body could said how to know at what is the edge bevel, (base & side) sharpen-tune from the factory when you take your board?

2- when asking for 89º, are speaking for 1º on the edge base and 2º on the side edge. Would be correct?

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Postby István » Tuesday 4 January 2005, 13:32

Sito,

1. I believe it is 90º (so 0º both on the base and side). At least it was on all the boards I had.

2. I believe 1º on the base and 2º on the side would result 87º overall, unless you you want to make make the 1º on the base the other way around (resulting in a convex base instead of a concave one)

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Edges

Postby harald » Tuesday 4 January 2005, 13:35

Hi,
1-Some body could said how to know at what is the edge bevel, (base & side) sharpen-tune from the factory when you take your board?

I would say 90º, that is 0º base and 90º side.

2- when asking for 89º, are speaking for 1º on the edge base and 2º on the side edge. Would be correct?

Yes, that should be correct.
Another question is why you and others prefer beveled edges? I wonder since the board almost always is ridden on the edges and seldom flat. As I understand it you have to tilt the board even more in order to make the edge grip when they are beveled. But there might be something that I have missed and I have never tried beveled edges so I do not know how it feels.
Regards,
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Degrees

Postby István » Tuesday 4 January 2005, 13:46

Harald, I think #2 works the other way around, but I' m getting unsure abaout it.

I always rid 88º meaning 2º on the side, but e.g. the sharpener that I have can apply angles to the base, but in the direction I prescribed before.

Otherwise, cannot really imagine what the use could be of a base that is convex.


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Postby SITO » Tuesday 4 January 2005, 14:51

Yep, guys,
I think so, that the board come from the factory at 90º but in really you don't know at how many degrees are you riding only is a supposition, and, if you want to sharpen your edges to 89º for yourself , or inquiry this work to a tune- shop, or at the factory, how can you know that they-you, have sharpened your edges at the bevel wished? :wink: then....
my question is on the air, how to know what is your real edge- bevel?

Always I have riding to 90 but the most people ride to 89 I would like to tested this,

Riding days ago I change only 2º in my rear bindings,my board change his way to ride much ,much better, how if it was a different board, it need this change, and I ask for myself why don't do this much time ago!
So why not to ride at 89º?

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Postby harald » Tuesday 4 January 2005, 15:47

Hi again,
From a Swix leaflet I am reading (as far as I remember) that on skis, it is usual with 0º bevel and -1º to -3º side, making 89º to 87º edge angle for slalom. In giant slalom 0º to 0,5º bevels and -0,5º to -2º side making 90º to 88,5º edge angle. In super G and downhill 1º bevel and -1º to -2º side, making 90 to 89 edge. For alpine boards 0º bevels and 0º to -3º side, making 90 to 87 effective edge angle. For half pipe/freestyle/bx 0.5º to 1º bevels and 90 to 89 effective edge angle.
0º makes a more agressive ski/board that grips earlier and carves faster in the turns. Bevels make the boards/skis floatier which is important when you ride long distances flat as in downhill and super G and also in the pipe and bx course. A 90º edge is stronger while 89º and below bites better on ice. Therefore, I always use 0º bevel and 90º edge since I never ride flat on the board, I want it to grip quickly in the turns and keep the edge for longer. For me a razor sharp 90º is sharp enough for the most conditions, even when the slopes are icy, but bevels and angles also is a matter of habits, preferences and riding styles.
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Postby pokkis » Tuesday 4 January 2005, 15:58

As Harald said base bevel helps to keep board not to catch so easily when riding on flat base OR when changing cant.
I'm riding base bevel of 0.5 degrees and side on 88 which means that total angle is 88.5 degrees. Normally during season i dont touch base bevel at all, but if i bring board to my trusted shop to re run base, then they will also run bevel too.
Side cants im sharpening time-to-time with this excelent Tooltonic but mainly only on diamond side.
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Postby SITO » Tuesday 4 January 2005, 23:30

Thanks Pokkis! :lol:

Harald,excellent answer is perfect for all my doubts!! :wink:


To have information is important for our knowledge of our passion.
Only the last for my knowledge about the edges is how to check if my edge have the bevel wished, aarg! :?

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Postby Rietzschel » Wednesday 5 January 2005, 0:29

Hey Sito,

Click this link and scroll down. Take with you haralds anwer and...

http://www.extremecarving.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=884

Hope this will help.

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for Istvan (and anyone else who is curious)

Postby NateW » Wednesday 5 January 2005, 9:04

I rode with a 0 degree base and 90 edge for years, mostly because it never occured to me to try anything else. After talking with someone about base beveling I had a shop give my a 1 degree base an 89 edge angle, so the angle of the edge itself is still 90 degrees, but the corner is lifted just a tiny tiny bit. I tried this on my least favorite board, just in case... but I liked the results so much I now have all of my boards tuned this way.

The only difference difference is that the board feels more neutral when I'm riding with the base flat against the snow (not on an edge). It's less likely to catch an edge, so I can relax and just cruise along. Other than that, as far as I can tell, it rides exactly the same. Carving is the same, skidding is the same, it just has a much nicer feel when riding with the base flat on the snow.
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Bevel

Postby István » Wednesday 5 January 2005, 9:38

Guys,

I'm getting confused here. Firstly I did not know that there was a type of bevel when the result is a convex base (leave alone +/- angles, it even makes it more complicated)

Then I've learnt from one posting that it results in a floatier behaviour when riding flat.

Consequently and logically a bevel that result in a concave base bites the ice more when riding flat.

Now Natew says it the other way around: he says he has 89 degrees, with no changes on the side, thus the base must be concave. So it should bite the ice more suddenly when riding flat. He says the opposite.

I'm confused, someone pls help me.


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Postby pokkis » Wednesday 5 January 2005, 9:53

What this beveling base means, is that one takes away material of outer edge of base cant ie that way reducing grip and edge catch and it also it reduces total angle, allways, this can be compensated by making side angles slightly less that 90 degrees.
Other way round you can not do in real life :)
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Bevel

Postby István » Wednesday 5 January 2005, 10:03

Thanks Pokkis.

In this case I'm still a bit surprised because I have seen (and I also have one) edge sharpeners where a base bevel can be applied the other way around (taking material off the inner side of the edge, resulting in a slightly concave base)

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Re: Bevel

Postby vkrouverk » Wednesday 5 January 2005, 11:55

István wrote:Now Natew says it the other way around: he says he has 89 degrees, with no changes on the side, thus the base must be concave. So it should bite the ice more suddenly when riding flat. He says the opposite.

You probably misinterpreted his words. What he said, is that total angle of edge is still 90 degrees, side edge has 89 degrees in relation to snowboard base (not snowboard base edge!) and base edge has 1 degree bevel in relation to snowboard base. In other words if you put snowboard on floor bindings upwards, then metal edge is turned 1 degree upward in base and 1 degree inward in side.

Pokkis wrote:What this beveling base means, is that one takes away material of outer edge of base cant ie that way reducing grip and edge catch and it also it reduces total angle, allways, this can be compensated by making side angles slightly less that 90 degrees.

You meant: increases total angle?
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Postby pokkis » Wednesday 5 January 2005, 12:00

OOPS, you got me, i tried to say it will increase angle, that is why one need to decrease angle on sides to keep it 90 or less :oops:
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