Another first day on SWOARD

[cmachine]

Hi all

Yesterday, I rode my new SOWARD for the first time.
Because I had just 3 hours on it on a mainly crowded slope , I will just write a little temporary report now. I will depict my experiences in more detail after I will have enjoyed more time on this carving-machine.

THE GEAR:
I’m the proud owner of a 175-softflex-SWOARD. My measures are: 184cm, 73.5kg, boot size 43.5. My sets are flat and centred as recommended (stance: 50.5cm, angles still trying for the optimum on SWOARD: F53…55°, B47…50°). I’m standing on a Bomber TD non-step-in with medium bumpers and a 1mm rubber under the base plate. My boot is a Deeluxe Suzuka with a modified spring system (softer springs).

THE LENGTH:
First I worried a little about the long size of the SWOARD. My previous board was a 168 Nidecker Proto that has a much shorter running edge. But my care about the length immediately disappeared after the first turn. It was not a problem at all to deal with this long board. The SWOARD makes its turn very precisely. Whereas my Proto tends to drift a little bit at high speeds in the tail part, the SWOARD cuts the turn on a very thin line without any edge skidding. At higher speeds and longer turns, this gave me a save and stable feeling I’ve never had before. As far as I can judge it up to now, the edge grip of the SWOARD is really excellent.

THE WIDTH:
The width of the board needs some effort to bring it on the edge. However, it is not as demanding as I expected it from other posts.
But there is another effect I like to describe here: During a turn, while I was increasing the board angle (relative to the snow), the force (resistance) to my feet suddenly decreased from one moment to the other and I almost toppled. (I hope I could describe what I mean, if not, let me know). I noticed about this effect only at low speed and with moderate carves. At higher speeds and/or more dynamic carves, this effect disappeared. To handle this behaviour, I tried to dose the forces very carefully. I hope I will get used to it after some days.
I think this comes from the relatively high width of the board (if not, please correct me). If one of you had some similar experiences, I would like to get some resonance and/or hints.

That’s it for the moment.

Big congratulations to Jacques for this excellent board.
I’m looking forward to next Wednesday. Guess what I will do then…

Olaf

[nils]

Can't believe there are people riding the swoard its such a cool feeling for us to know people are stocked !
As for the strange width sensation you had that gave you less less pressure during low speed turns, it is normal at lower speeds>
the reason why > the board has such a grip, on all running edge, that the centrifugeal forces we are used to are divided onto every cm of the edge, it means you will not get at low speeds the feeling of a hard thing under the feet, but more a feeling that you are riding an arc with tips that are pressing on the snow in a balance way. Usually on a alpine board, you tend to loose the feeling that the tips are working during the whole turn ( usually its nose / mid section then tail that grips more, the pressure getting backwards on the edge during the turning process.... Here on the Swoard, the ATC matrix is like having two arms forcing the nose and tail so the edge is really bent in a progressive way ( its better explained in the ATC matrix page of Swoard menu).
Of course at higher speeds, the pressure is higher, so you get more feel of it under the feet....
Riding an arc instead of a straight edge is kind of strange at first, but I got used to it pretty fast.

Tell us more when you get the chance to ride more Pics would be appreciated of course

Nils

[neil_swingler]

Hi Olaf,

where are you riding?

- Neil

[rilliet]

But there is another effect I like to describe here: During a turn, while I was increasing the board angle (relative to the snow), the force (resistance) to my feet suddenly decreased from one moment to the other and I almost toppled. (I hope I could describe what I mean, if not, let me know). I noticed about this effect only at low speed and with moderate carves. At higher speeds and/or more dynamic carves, this effect disappeared. To handle this behaviour, I tried to dose the forces very carefully. I hope I will get used to it after some days.

Mmh... the force that suddenly decreases seems very strange to me.

Questions:
- Does the board skid when this happens?
- Did you sharpen the edges?
- Does this happens under both feet?

Jacques

[cmachine]

Hi Jacques

Does the board skid when this happens?

No, absolutely not.

Did you sharpen the edges?

No, there are still as delivered.

Does this happen under both feet?

Not possible to answer this, because I now think we’re not talking about the same thing.

Due to your questions I conclude that I did not describe the effect very good. I’m sorry for that . I will try again, to be sure to got understood well:

Just for description, imaging the following: You are standing on your board but not riding, just standing (standing is just the extreme way of riding very slow. And I think we are all a little extreme here. And so is this description ).
Now you want to bring your board on the front edge. To do this you, need to lean forward. This forward leaning needs some force, but this is not a force that goes along with your legs, it goes across (transversal). If you give too much force, your centre of gravity comes over the edge and you suddenly fall on your face. The moment when you loose the balance is when you cross the “maximum” (From one moment to the other there will be no transversal reaction force and you will fall).
In order to stay on the edge and not to fall you have to dose the force very carefully just before this “maximum”.

I think this description makes clear that what I want to explain has nothing to do with edge skidding/sharpening.


Usually you are riding and not standing. And when riding faster, there is more force along with the legs and the balancing problem disappears. But when riding slow and initiating an easy turn, I can feel something like the description above. I think it comes from the with, but I’m not sure.

Nils, out of your answer I conclude you made similar experiences. Right?

Best regards
Olaf

[nils]

Actually not really.. I'm still wondering what you're describing.. is it going over the nose like too much forward lean and bam, the nose bends too much and you fall???? If that is what you describe, I have tested the board (Hard flex +) in that special situation like when on a race board entering violently a turn ( this separates your experience from mine i guess).. I have not succeeded in falling over the nose, because the flex of the board "recovered" me before i fell.....Actually i fell, but more from the surprise of the nose bending and then holding me above it.. i was then too forward to actually turn in that situation...and fell on the inside of the turn...
Its really a rare situation, because with the lesser angles, and flat canting lift, you are usually driven to ride more centered, not like on a race set up...

Last thing that we don't say enough here... the board takes at least a full day, more like 2 so you can understand its difference from the regular race boards.... then once you pick it up, you adjust your riding into a looser way toward EC... Well that is what i felt

cheers

[cjhoffmn]

From reading your posts, it seems to me that you are describing a weightlessness feeling. Using your second post, in that moment *just before* you start to fall, you have a feeling of weightlessness.

In your first post, you describe the feeling of weightlessness in the slow turns, which goes away in the fast turns. In the faster turns, the mountain is exerting more force against you, therefore, your feet are getting more pressure coming back straight up to your body.

I've had the feeling of weightlessness before, similar to what you describe, and I'm pretty sure its because the EC board supports your weight over a very long effective edge. This gives a fantastic distribution of your weight, and makes it easier to balance your self over the combination of the forces in a turn, the down force of gravity and the side force of the turn. In a hard carve, there's alot more of the side force, so its easier to push your feet *down* against that force. In a slow carve you have less of the side force, but find it relatively easy to balance the down forces, and therefore feel weightless. Furthermore, you are "inbetween" the angles and therefore, don't have one force or the other to push against, which is a bit unsettling.

I'm guessing here, of course, but its much like the feeling of a swing before you've let yourself "sink" into the swing.

I can ride my carving board and feel almost completely weightless on toesides at slower speeds. Mine's a 182 with almost 160cm of effective edge and wide - 24cm. (My Swoard 175 stiff is on its way!!) When I do this, its a scary feeling, I almost feel like I can't change the board's line, and it will just take me wherever its pointing. In fact, it feels like I'm not in control of the board. Then I can just weight the edge a little more, the turn radius will decrease, the side pressure will increase and I can take control back.

My guess is that is a combination of your boots getting lifted off the snow due to the width of the board, with the ease of balance of the long effective edge at the slow speeds that causes this. When it happens to me, it makes me think that I'm at perfect 45 degree angle, the board has decambered just enough to touch the snow all along its edge, no more, and that I'm perfectly balanced.

[cmachine]

Hi Nils, hi cjhoffmn

Thanks for the answer.
Hui, this thread becomes funny.

Nils: The forward lean I mentioned is not against the nose. (I never had problems with nose flips on swoard). When standing on the board in the theoretical experiment above, I assumed to have the shoulders parallel to the board. I meant forward lean against the edge only and not against the nose (frontside in the above description. But the same is true for backside of course because all is symmetrical!)
Does this fit better to your experiences?

Cjhoffmn: I think you understood what I mean (uff…). It is really some weightless feeling that I could avoid by pushing the board away hard or when driving faster. This increases the forces against my feet and gave me back the control.
What solution do you suggest for lower speeds? Just to dose the forces very carefully and carve very precisely?

Regards
Olaf

[cjhoffmn]

This is cjhoffmn. I changed my nickname to something a little more "Carving Sounding."

I made this happen on my board the first time by mistake, and it really was unsettling when it happened. I then learned how to do it on purpose and it became a bit fun. It felt like I was trying to make the board work right, but at the wrong speed. I couldn't get my board to do this on the heelside, only toeside. I am much better at angulating on toeside so I could stay over the edge much better at a slower speed. I also noticed that it was easy to get "locked" into one of these slow carves and I couldn't get out, without almost falling over, or turning back up hill.

I imagine with a soft flex Swoard you should be able to simply pressure the nose a little to make the board turn a little quicker, which would allow you to get a little more control back. It's quite possible that this is a result of the length of the board as well. Because the board is long, it may need a little extra speed before it will turn easily; although with a soft flex, I'd think this would be minimal. I also think that the Swoard has been designed to be ridden on its side might also be part of the "newness" of the feeling.

Regulating edge pressure, carving precisely and using less edge angle at slower speeds might all be ways to make it easier to feel the edge. Of course, I'm no expert around here, I was only able to relate because I've had the same feeling on my own board. As soon as I get my Swoard, I'll post something similar to this and let you know if I had the same feelings. Many others around here will know better answers than me.

I guess one of the coolest things about owning the swoard is that we can never fall down again. Who wants to fall on their own Swoard? heheheh

[rilliet]

Hi Olaf,

You made an excellent description of what is happening during an edge switching. The rider can begin to turn only when his gravity center has come over the edge (it must overhangs the snow, not the board).

To me your problem is very simple: you are not used to the width of your new board! You said you have been riding 3 hours only. This is probably not enough to your physiological balance sytem to totally assimilate this new information.
For your body, the edge is just located at another place than usually.

Ride 1 ou 2 days more and I'm sure this problem will disappear by itself.

Jacques

[cmachine]

Hi cjhoffmn, hi Jacques

Thanks both for your answers. I think your statements underline very well what I mean and that I will get used to it after some additional hours on SWOARD.

For your body, the edge is just located at another place than usually.

I completely agree with this!


Soon I will spend more time on SWOARD and let you know how it has gone

Regards
Olaf

[cmachine]

Hi

Rilliet wrote:

For your body, the edge is just located at another place than usually.

Now, my body knows










***********************************************
See the thin line the swoard cuts on this frozen ground.
The pic was taken early in the morning. The slope was groomed, but still very hard:





***********************************************
The gloves need more maintenance than the board.
This is the result of only 2 days:

[nils]

Wooow my turn comes this next week end !
Let's get the gallery ready for all the swoard pics we'll get from users!!

n.

[cmachine]

Hi masters of backside

May be one of you can help me with this.


First the good news:
Since I’ve been riding the SWOARD, I significantly improved my laid frontside turn. Because of the 13m radius, I can stay down much longer than with my Nidecker Proto (=lot of fun). Now I have enough time to go down with the whole body (=deeper than in the above photos). And the edge grip is so good that I can lay down also on hard slopes. And the best: It is possible to lay down on moderate steep slopes too. On the Proto is was possible only on steep slopes because of the speed loss.

Now the backside:
Unfortunately I can’t do it on the same level on a backside turn. I can lay down on best snow condition only (but not as deep and controlled as frontside).
I tried to touch the snow on backside with both hands. When doing this, the SWOARD began to drift and the turn failed. So I tried to rotate less and only touched the snow with my left hand; the right hand along the leg like J&P. All was a little better, but still not as good as frontside.
I don’t want to rotate too less on backside, because the carve almost looks like a counter-rotation-style.
On my Proto I could lay down completely on backside (Apple Quicktime 360K):
http://carver.cc/clips/clip_olaf_bs_proto.mov
It is not a push/pull here, but it was possible to go down with the whole body and with both hands.

What can I do to improve my backside on SWOARD. I have the same settings than before except the stance that was increased from 48.5cm to 50.5cm. Any Hints? Can it be the stance?

Thanks in advance,
Olaf

[rilliet]

Hi Olaf,

Try this:

• - When crossing the piste before turning, be careful to be perpendiculary to the slope. You can even go slightly toward the top of the slope.
  
  - During the backside turn, put more weight on your front foot.
  
  - You should perhaps soften your boots or/and your bindings a little bit.

To me, it's correct not to make an over-rotation and touch the snow with your left hand only.

>Can it be the stance?
Seems not.

For your gloves, you can put a piece of thin (1mm) rubber on the exposed parts.
In Switzerland, you find it at http://www.maagtechnik.ch/.

Have good tests!

Jacques