Russia Banned from the Olympics

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Russia Banned from the Olympics

Postby nils » Wednesday 6 December 2017, 15:53

IOC has announced yesterday that it will ban Russian olympic commitee from the next winter olympics, following the disastrous Sochi 2014 where the doping was state operated (read the interesting New York Times article about how it was performed.)

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/05/spor ... v=top-news

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... -2014.html

The IOC has kept the possibility open for the athletes to compete under Olympic flag, and it seems Russian snowboard federation will announce on the 12th of december of what they do..
There is good chances they will let the possibility to each rider to choose individualy what to do... Unless the politics are too involved and they will make sure their athletes can not and risk ban doing it... closing the door for them... we will see.

Lets hope athletes from the Snowboard teams, which are at the bottom of the doping lists in winter sports, can get enough freedom to choose to join the Olympic flag...
It is interesting that this touches the most funded snowboard team on the planet, benefiting of huge national funds compare to what other get... When you see the number of Russian alpine riders at various age/ category with allflex plates, mountain slope, kessler and coaches, you know there is big money behind... and real will to build a world class level of riders.

Doping is sport"s worst enemy, and the IOC decision is courageous: many dreams of clean athletes have been stolen by doped ones, and anti doping war is necessary.
Wondering what everyone thinks of this...

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Re: Russia Banned from the Olympics

Postby goavegas » Thursday 7 December 2017, 13:26

nils wrote:IOC has announced yesterday that it will ban Russian olympic commitee from the next winter olympics, following the disastrous Sochi 2014 where the doping was state operated (read the interesting New York Times article about how it was performed.)

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/05/spor ... v=top-news

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... -2014.html

The IOC has kept the possibility open for the athletes to compete under Olympic flag, and it seems Russian snowboard federation will announce on the 12th of december of what they do..
There is good chances they will let the possibility to each rider to choose individualy what to do... Unless the politics are too involved and they will make sure their athletes can not and risk ban doing it... closing the door for them... we will see.

Lets hope athletes from the Snowboard teams, which are at the bottom of the doping lists in winter sports, can get enough freedom to choose to join the Olympic flag...
It is interesting that this touches the most funded snowboard team on the planet, benefiting of huge national funds compare to what other get... When you see the number of Russian alpine riders at various age/ category with allflex plates, mountain slope, kessler and coaches, you know there is big money behind... and real will to build a world class level of riders.

Doping is sport"s worst enemy, and the IOC decision is courageous: many dreams of clean athletes have been stolen by doped ones, and anti doping war is necessary.
Wondering what everyone thinks of this...

N

Russia will not oppose athler wo will partecipate at the game,it will be athlete personal decision.Political decision is the one IOC has taken toward Russia.I personally trust more news outlet like RT,Russia Today,or Sputnik,wich had to register as Foreign Agent in US since US government don't like the thruth to be told.

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Re: Russia Banned from the Olympics

Postby jax » Thursday 7 December 2017, 13:39

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Re: Russia Banned from the Olympics

Postby nils » Thursday 7 December 2017, 13:42

Well does it means the NYT article is based on invention? Is the Sochi massive fraud a pure invention? I would tend to believe there was a state run fraud, like there was in the 70's in Russia/DDR.

As for the IOC decision, Yes it is also a political decision, and as the article Vic Wild quoted, it also shows very different ways sports are handled between US and Russia (vertical down of bottom up).
I think nations should have nothing to do with olympic games and athletes should not run under a flag other than the olympic flag anyway... So it's fine with me if they participate under a neutral banner!! Let's hope political decisions will not interfere with athletes decisions...

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Re: Russia Banned from the Olympics

Postby jax » Thursday 7 December 2017, 13:49

I don't know what is going on.
Maybe the IOC is right and maybe the Russian Federation is.
But I think that there is no justice in banning all the federation.
Who was doped has to be punished, who was not doped doesn't have to be punished.
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Re: Russia Banned from the Olympics

Postby Vitaly » Thursday 7 December 2017, 19:14

nils wrote:IOC has announced yesterday that it will ban Russian olympic commitee from the next winter olympics, following the disastrous Sochi 2014 where the doping was state operated

The IOC report does not really have words about "state support for doping" in Russia
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Re: Russia Banned from the Olympics

Postby nils » Thursday 7 December 2017, 19:15

Agreed, but at the end this what is going to happen no? Clean athletes will be able to compete against neutral flag, and dirty won't...

The punishment is more against the fact that it was state organised... it seems they even created a machine able to open the samples without damaging the cap... and they were swiss made bottles that were supposed to be proofed against any kind of manipulation without breaking the seal... In some cases the IOC eventually examined bottles caps with microscopes, and there was scratches showing the cap were forced in some way... (that led to last weeks medals suspension).
Don't forget that some athletes got 4th on the podium in Sochi and got medals stolen from them by cheaters.

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Re: Russia Banned from the Olympics

Postby Vitaly » Thursday 7 December 2017, 20:14

I absolutely do not care what flag the athletes will compete against! These are their games, and their demonstration of strength, agility and ability to win.
According to the statute, Games are competitions between individual athletes, and not between national teams. And this is not the first time when athletes went under the white Olympic flag. Previously, athletes from 16 countries, already acted under the white flag. Аnd athletes from Russia will not be a white spot in the Olympics! They will be called "Olympic Athlete from Russia"
Among us there are no saints! All we are not without sin! Sometimes for sins punish! Sometimes do not punish. And I do not want to justify anyone. And I do not believe that only in Russia athletes used dope, and athletes of other countries are white and fluffy bunnies.
And as far as I know, there is no collective responsibility in any legal law! But in this case it appeared!

Image

and Olympic champions in artistic gymnastics Simone Biles (USA) and Aliya Mustafina (Russia)

Image

no doping, only muesli :D :wall:
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Re: Russia Banned from the Olympics

Postby nils » Friday 8 December 2017, 9:21

Vitaly wrote:
nils wrote:IOC has announced yesterday that it will ban Russian olympic commitee from the next winter olympics, following the disastrous Sochi 2014 where the doping was state operated

The IOC report does not really have words about "state support for doping" in Russia

Indeed, but that is when politics and diplomacy is involved... the fraud had to be organised at high level in order to be working on that scale (not to mention the tech involved to open the bottles without breaking the seals...
The NY times article cites the FSB... we might never know but its not amateurish.

I agree on your white flag and athlete thing... they make the games, not the nations behind them.
Funny enough with your pics, I would say both tennis players were doped ! US has a long history of doping in athletism too... we all remember Florence Griffith-Joyner and Lance Armstrong examples... and the Tour is another level of high level fraud too... The only difference is that it is mostly organised by the athletes teams or personnal trainers and is not generalized like in this case.

Anyway lets wish them good luck (and also to win under the neutral flag would be nice!).
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Re: Russia Banned from the Olympics

Postby Vitaly » Friday 8 December 2017, 9:58

nils wrote:Indeed, but that is when politics and diplomacy is involved... the fraud had to be organised at high level in order to be working on that scale (not to mention the tech involved to open the bottles without breaking the seals...

Have I understood you correctly that if fraud is organized in a highly beautiful and high level, then it is done under the guise of the State? and what in this case should be understood by the word "State"?

ps

IOC presented the conditions to the Russian Olympic Committee that pay for the work of two commissions for the investigation of doping and plus a payment of 15 million dollars. USA, and then they can possibly make a positive decision for Russian athletes to march under the Russian flag on the closing day of the Olympic Games.

and how do I not then think that the decision of the IOC was not influenced by money from that coast of the Atlantic Ocean?
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Re: Russia Banned from the Olympics

Postby jax » Friday 8 December 2017, 10:39

Vitaly wrote:And as far as I know, there is no collective responsibility in any legal law!

This is the only point!

And just another thing.
Why the IOC waited the year of the winter games to make their decision?
Now for the clean athletes everything could be very difficult.


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Re: Russia Banned from the Olympics

Postby nils » Friday 8 December 2017, 12:04

As for "state" the IOC banned the Russian Olympic commitee which has tight links with the state which funds it (as in every country )... What they imply is the frauds could not have been possible without clearance/help from above.

Its is indeed strange it took so long and they just finalized their decision so late a few months before the games... Yes lets hope athletes can still focus on their training and let the paperwork and legal battles to their coaches and teams... I hope they do handle it well and show that despite all this hassle they are the best at what they do.
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Re: Russia Banned from the Olympics

Postby Vitaly » Saturday 9 December 2017, 7:22

nils wrote: What they imply is the frauds could not have been possible without clearance/help from above.

Hypnosis of pro-US media
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Re: Russia Banned from the Olympics

Postby goavegas » Saturday 9 December 2017, 7:45

jax wrote:
Vitaly wrote:And as far as I know, there is no collective responsibility in any legal law!

This is the only point!

And just another thing.
Why the IOC waited the year of the winter games to make their decision?
Now for the clean athletes everything could be very difficult.


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The timing has more to doo with what happening between Usa and Russia.
Right now there is a witch hunt going on in US and everything happening everywehre is Russia's fault,Trump victory,Brexit,Catalonia desire of independence,North Italy vote for economical independance.
Again,politic should stay away from sport and not be used as a weapon.

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Re: Russia Banned from the Olympics

Postby Vitaly » Saturday 9 December 2017, 9:39

US ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley said on Fox News that the participation of American athletes in the upcoming 2018 Winter Olympics was an "open question" amid tensions with North Korea.(с) http://www.businessinsider.com/nikki-ha ... on-2017-12

I do not really understand what they are against!
They did not want to see Russian athletes at the Olympic Games. Now they yourself are afraid to go!
But all the provocations they organize themselves! And the neighboring military state is provoked, now the brains are blown up by the Muslims ... And now they are worried about the safety of their athletes!
That's why they do not want to live peacefully on their "island" ? Why do they make the whole world in some sort of tension, and at the same time they are always to blame for someone, but not they are
And why, for some reason, they need to create tension on our continent! And on their "island" they are not interested to do it!
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